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Are these the same people who all pick the same kind of contrabass tuba, pick a F tuba for it's "German sound" even though their contrabass doesn't have that, and then complain about their "German" F tuba being hard to play (or about other peoples's F tubas not having a "German" sound)? If so, pay them no heed.


I like some of the Yamaha tubas I've played (both F's and the 321 euph), and not others (641, comp euphs).

To the OB:

Yes.

I'm a BIG fan of their piston valve tubas. I love all of Yamaha's F tubas for different reasons and I love the YCB-822 as an ensemble horn. The rotary C they used to make was very nice but they're difficult to find now and vastly different from their current models. If what you're looking for is a versatile tuba (and if you're buying your first horn, you certainly should be), the 822 is big enough to hold down the bottom end of nearly any orchestra and with a little effort and perhaps a little research into different mouthpieces I've seen the 822 used with success in quintet. I've advised students of my own on their purchase of the YCB-822 and have purchased a YFB-822 myself.

My $0.02.

Only you can make the call if it's the tuba for you or not. A lot of things go into the purchase of something like a tuba, especially if it will be your only tuba for a while.

I've played a few 641's and currently own a YCB-621 and don't have much to complain about them (all my complaining about the 621 was done in the first month I had it, hee, hee...). The 621 is a small tuba but surely does not produce a dead sound so long as you supply the air. There might be a slight learning curve for the ergonomics but even a large-handed dude like myself can get used to it. The 621 was the right horn for me at the time. You will find the right horn for you when the time comes.

My complaint is about the valves. A friend of mine bought his son the big BBb rotor, not the hand-built one, but the one based on the Alex. He's had nothing but problems with the rotors and linkage sticking. I borrowed one of the CC rotors when my Besson was in the shop before I got my 186. Nothing but problems in the short time I had it, even though the first thing I did was take it to a tech to sort it out before I played it. I play in a massed band for Memorial Day at our federal cemetary, with lots of guests from different places, ensembles, community bands, and schools. Half the tuba players are students with the Yamaha upright valve tubas that are the model based on a non-comp Besson but with the addition of a 4th valve. All of them had valves that stuck and all had at least one valve guide broken so the valve freely rotated in its casing. And these were the "good" private students of a retired colleague who gives lessons, so they had been taught how to take care of the horns. Finally, a tech friend of mine says that at least half of his normal, routine, not accident or negligent based, repair work is rounding out Yamaha valve casings of all of their brass instruments.

In a word, probably. The reason being is that Yamaha advertise some of the tightest valve clearances in the business which is fine, but they also tend to have a bit thinner valve casings, which is not fine. If their casings were thicker, and the valve sets a little more protected, like a King 1241, then those couple of details would go a long way to improving the valves.

I bought a YEP-321S euph new some 15 years ago, cared for it meticulously, and had just awful problems with the valves sticking. Yamaha, however, cheerfully replaced the entire horn under warranty, and the replacement unit has excellent valves that I've never had any trouble with.

As always, play-test before you buy. If you do get stuck with sticky valves, take the issue up with Yamaha.

When I played a YBB-321 the plastic valve guides gave me hell. I had to wash out the casings a lot and pay special attention to the guide channels and keeping them clean as possible. I would always have an unexpected valve issue when I needed it most. However; I did have great luck with an unlaquered older model YBB-321 that had metal screw on valve guides. I would try everything you can before committing to anything. There are people that praise and curse tubas on here but sometimes we just have to play whatever happens to fall into our laps.

Ive played on a fair number of Yamaha Tubas (own one, which is for sale. 641 rotor BBb) and I haven't had any problems with my valves. I'm not saying that there aren't Yamahas out there that have bad valves; Im sure almost every company has a faulty horn now and then. Anyway, I find that they are a very solid horn, with a pretty good sound.

Ive also played on the 321BBb Tuba, and the 321 Euphonium. I found the tuba very awkward to play, mostly because of the top action valves. The Euphonium was good.

I agree with what everyone has been saying though; play it before any talk of purchasing comes to mind

The problem with their valve guides breaking has been addressed with a steel reinforced insert in the valve guide. The earlier all-plastic ones did break with regularity but the new ones are excellent and have eliminated this problem. If you have a Yamaha with older valve guides the the newer ones are cross-compatible. In other words, the horn can be retro-fitted with the new valve guides with no modification.

Sticky Yamaha pistons are also caused by the softer metal they use to make the piston body (Monel Metal), corroding. This is a trade off. The softer metal is more easily damaged if dropped, more susceptible to corrosion, and wears faster. However, they are MUCH lighter, more easily fixed if damaged, and if you keep them clean and oiled are the fastest pistons around on a tuba. Yes, they do require more maintenance than the newer stainless steel valves on most horns now, but if you get a sticky set of valves they are much easier to massage and get running. I have known so many players that are constantly battling stainless steel valves trying to get them to run OR end up selling the horn because they just give up. Stainless steel pistons can run very well, but if they are fitted poorly at the factory will usually never feel right.

einaphets, you have a lot of good opinions here, but that's just what they are: opinions. The only one who can decide whether the high price tag is worth it is you.
Having said that I will offer my opinion. I like the Yamayork, the 822s (both F and C), and the 621 F and C (don't care for the BBb). They're decent, but IMHO yes, the tone is a little "dead" to me and they are terribly (unjustifiably) overpriced. There are better horns to be had at a much lower price point, equal or better quality, with a tone I happen to like much more. YMMV.

I do not own a Yamaha tuba but I have played some very fine horns. I have also heard some very fine players on Yamaha tubas. If the player is any indication, I would say Yamaha makes some good tubas:

Wes Jacobs, Yamaha Eb, former DSO player. He always sounded amazing on his horn, whether playing a solo recital, the DSO, brass quintet, brass ensemble, etc.

Mark Mortier (that is not correct but that's as close as I can recall. I think he went on to teach at Ball State)) I heard Mark play his Yamaha Eb on numerous occasions. Always sounded great. I attended one of his doctorate recitals at UM (Michigan). The program was also transcriptions of great solo works. He played them all on his Yamaha and it was one of the most tasteful, musical tuba recitals I have heard.

Carol Janstch: Yamaha F. Need I say more!

There are lemons and shining stars in each brand and type of horn. Play them all before you buy and I am sure you will find the right one for you.

Good luck.

It ALL depends how close it is to Tuba Christmas. They can be very good just before and well, very naughty and bad afterward.

It's a bit like a dog I had. When Santa Paws pulled up in a big red truck and dropped off a couple cases of her favourite food she was very well behaved. Next night when Santa Claus was gonna come in through a window (couldn't use the chimney as there was a gas heater in the fireplace) she went right off and I never got anything!

Some years back I borrowed a very abused 4V Eb which with just a bit of a tidy up played very well despite having been really beaten up.

The original design work was done by Schilke - using the Besson as a reference point (minus compensation and going to straight 4 instead of 3+1. When I was working for him in '70 I did a lot of playing on the prototype CC - yep, a cut BBb. One characteristic of Ren's design work was close tolerances. I remember the first prototype trombone. The slide tolerances were so close that you couldn't put slide cream on it.

Just some more 'half blind old man trivia' for you.

Oh yes......... Dog said the Claus was planning to pick up rather than leave presents.

The valves on my YCB-661 have never stuck on me.....ever. Its a 20-yr old instrument and has never let me down on the job.

As for the tone, its as good or better than just about any 4/4 rotary CC's I have played. Everyone I play with always comments on the sound of this 661 the first chance they get. I have never been crazy for the 822 CC's, though I know of a really good one that has a 4/4 Hirsbrunner bell on it and its a rockin' horn. The 861's were nice, but very hard to come by these days....like the 661's.

As stated in an earlier post....many great artists have chosen Yamaha F tubas for solo/chamber work and there are a lot of great recordings with these incredibly dependable (and predictable) instruments.

I do, however, tend to think that the sound coming out of the bell is merely an amplification of what you put into the instrument. Roger Bobo, Floyd Cooley, Toby Hanks, Jim Self, Tommy Johnson, Norm Pearson....all great players who make great sounds....even on their 'vanilla' Yamahas.

-Josh Wirt

Yamaha tubas=BAD

TUbajohn20J wrote:Yamaha tubas=BAD

Yes, do tell. And how do *you* know this?

I have played the YBB 641, YBB 321, and marched with a Yamaha souzie when I was in college--never had a problem with any of them ever. They all played very well and were easy to maintain. I have played on a 30 yo 321 that was severely damaged and it STILL played well. Yamaha is not for everyone and no, they are not without flaws...the same could be said of Miraphone, MW, Hirsbrunner, B&S. Yamaha makes some of the best tubas around---you may not like them, but noone can deny their popularity, quality, and longevity. YAMAHA=GOOD

einahpets wrote:

TUbajohn20J wrote:Yamaha tubas=BAD

can you elaborate on that?

Sure. Thin brass, noisy rotors, hard to tune, the usual problems with most asian tubas. I've only played on 1 type of yamaha tuba the YBB 641. Our high school director bought 4 of those in bright silver. They may look pretty but those were definately the worst tubas I have ever played. I have no idea why Yamaha calls them "professional" models. No matter how much I oiled the rotors, I always had problems. Also you could basically thump the brass and it would dent. I prefer tubas of quality and that is not what I got with the Yamaha. The Yamaha sousaphones are the same way. You cant play over forte without the sound getting blatty. Some of the other Yamaha models might be better. I have just had bad experiences on all the Yamaha's I've ever played.

I have played:-
The YEB201, it is a pleasant little tuba, probably better to play than the Besson student tuba,
The YEB321, I did not, for 1 minute, enjoy the 4 in a row valve configuration. That said, its sound was comparable to the imperial tuba I was playiing at the time. Friends who play the YEB632 find it to be a very good instrument to play, although when I had the option to get my own tuba I found the Courtois 181 more to my liking, but it would be going way too far to then claim that that makes the Yamaha Maestro a bad instrument.