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Anyone ever have any issues with keeping a horn out in the freezing cold car overnight?

After all it is not a violin or woodwind instrument.
k

That's almost the reason I've been leaving my new tuba at school (will have played it/be playing it last Thursday, this Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday there). No bag yet, and I worry slightly about taking it back and forth (about an hour tops each way), partially as I have no protection for it yet more so than any worry of cold damage.


I would definitely not leave a tuba in a car overnight in such temperatures.

I've done it in the past with a sousaphone during basketball pep band season and had no problems other than taking an extra few minutes to warm it up/thaw it out. I'm not sure I'd leave a horn in the car any longer, but it wouldn't be beacuse of the temp outside.

I can think of two possible issues...

1. Moisture in the valve casings. When we play, especially for extended periods of time, a layer of condensation (sometimes very thick) covers the valves/valveoil/valve casings. When water freezes, it actually expands by about 9%. This means that a film of water running between the valve and valve casing can expand considerably. I think that it could cause potential problems. When the water begins to freeze its own crystalline structure prohibits it from expanding to an area of less pressure (i.e. it will not just spread towards the top and bottom ends of the valve because its structure will only let it expand exponentially in each direction of the structure) I have no idea what the extent of this damage could be, or do to the horn, but I'm sure it does something (even if miniscule).

2. Temperature stress points. Being metal and being formed with hammers, dies, extruders, etc. our horns are in a state of stress. This is naturally engrained in the manufacture of the instrument. Because of this when the horns are heated or cooled to extremes natural torsion and expansion/reduction occurs. When a piece of metal is not stressed its expansion/reduction properties are rather consistent. Being that the horn is manufactured in such a way that stresses the molecules considerably, expansion and reduction is not uniform and is concentrated in parts of the horn. I think this makes the horn prone to broken solder braces and joints.

Hey Ken-as previously mentioned, nothing good can happen in the car overnight .
It could also fall victim to the tuba pirates or scrap metal collectors , or just plain stupid kids looking for a BBb ....

djwesp wrote:I think this makes the horn prone to broken solder braces and joints.

My wife is from Minnesota -- "cold" has a much different meaning there than where I'm from! Hey, my joints would break too if I were left outside overnight up there!

jamsav wrote:Hey Ken-as previously mentioned, nothing good can happen in the car overnight .
It could also fall victim to the tuba pirates or scrap metal collectors , or just plain stupid kids looking for a BBb ....

well my area is pretty remote so not alot of tuba pirates around (half the people who would look at it wouldn't know what the heck it was, as for kids looking for a BBb well mine is an Eb... in general I agree however. I just had three horns in my car after rehearsal and did not feel like dragging them all in the house so I left them in the car overnight for the gig the next day.

It got down to about 30 degrees so i thought perhaps i could get the benefits of a kryogenic treatment without the expense....

ken "lazy" k

Despite whatever the cold may/may not do to a horn, please do NOT ever leave your horn in a car overnight...I and numerous others here have had horns stolen out of cars. No matter how "safe" your area might be, please, just DON'T DO IT!!!

Jobey Wilson wrote:Despite whatever the cold may/may not do to a horn, please do NOT ever leave your horn in a car overnight...I and numerous others here have had horns stolen out of cars. No matter how "safe" your area might be, please, just DON'T DO IT!!!

I have never, ever left my horn in the car overnight and I am probably the only person in my close group of musician friends that has not had a horn stolen! I have heard so many stories about "The only time I left my horn in the car, somebody broke into it and took everything"! Besides, I don't think I would sleep, would be getting up to look out window at every noise or dog barking!

I've had several horns left in my vehicles, when the temperatures have dropped to well into the sub-zero's (read-20F plus), nothing has happened to the horns. You just need to sure that you have cleared all the significant moisture from the instrument. And yes a horn will start to freeze at +32F, and, Yes, it will be a frosty cool the next time it comes out of the case, and the valves will be frozen in place. Just be patient. I've pulled a horn out from -30F, it immediately turned into a crusty icy-frosty beer mug, Blow warm air through the horn, DO NOT force the piston or more important the rotors. The damage will occur to the paddles, well before the rotors' themselves break loose. At a -20F to-30F degrees, a warm horn will still freeze up on a moderate walking commute from the car to the gig. Yes, the valve tolerances are close, but we are not dealing with icebergs and the Titanic here, the casing are still stronger than .0004" of an ice crystal. Be patient, warm air and consideration will bring the horn to room temp without damage. Of course, taking it inside is best, but does not always happen at -20F below Freezing A** cold. Just remember to clear the significant amounts of collected moisture. Flame away, for me being careless with an expensive instrument. But, less damage happens to the horn in cold weather, than traveling in a dent bag. It has been -10F this week, and the horn is doing just fine, no leaks, no drips, no broken braces.

I would think that the small amount of moisture wouldn't be much of an issue; though the tolerances in valves are tight, it's not a closed (sealed) system, and the water will have room to expand without deforming any metal.

As for cold damage to the horn itself, irrespective of water, there are some folks who have cryogenically frozen their instruments on purpose, with no ill-effects (and debatable positive ones!)

My vote goes for "not an issue".

+1 on taking the horn OUT OF THE CAR for anti-theft reasons, though.

it wont damage the horn but it'll be hard to play for a couple minutes.. also the tuning gets messed up.