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There were three sizes of Marzan's built that I've seen. The large tuba is rarely seen, the middle size is more common and there is a small 'solo' horn. I believe all were offered in CC and BBb. They were also offered with a fifth valve. Some were made by Marzan some by MW and some by B&M. They are fine instruments but slightly out of favor currently. If you like the sound, they are great horns.

James Jenkins of the Jacksonville Symphony used to play one, a large BBb if I remember correctly. It was stolen about a year ago, I don't know if he has recovered it back or not.

Tubatinker, on this board, has a very informative page on Marzan tubas http://thevillagetinker.com/Marzan%20Horns.htm.

There were a few sizes:

Large w/piston valves
Small w/piston valves
Rotary

Alex -- I think you meant Willson (Kurath?) and B&M. I don't think MW had a part in the Marzans, but I could be wrong...

Also, Kevin Ladd has played his Marzan professionally since he bought it new in the early 70s. He played in the Syracuse Symphony for a bunch of years, and more recently in the Baltimore Opera (until went bankrupt last year).

Alex C wrote:There were three sizes of Marzan's built that I've seen. ....

That's true if you include the Marzan euphonium.

There were 'slant-rotor' and piston horns built by Bohm & Meinl that were what I would consider a large 4/4 or perhaps a 5/4 tuba. These were built in the keys of BBb and CC and are probably the most common Marzans around today. No one really knows how many of the 'big ones' were built but I would venture a guess that there were fewer than 200 made between the two keys with combinations of four and five valves. I only know of a dozen or so around today but surely there are more lurking in storage rooms somewhere. The 'claim to fame' on these horns was that the main tuning slide is on the top where it can be manipulated with the left hand. The consensus is that the BBb versions have better intonation than the CC horns. Of special interest is that the Bohm & Meinl factory is the same facility that is owned by Walter Nirschle and the bugles of these horns resemble that of the Nirschle tubas. I own both a 'slant-rotor' and a piston Marzan. My experience is that the 'slant-rotor' exhibits better overall intonation than the piston version. I've only played the 'large' B & M variety so I can offer any performance characteristics on the small 'solo' tuba or the euphoniums.

The page from the DEG catalog shows the large tuba and the 'solo' tuba as being the same size. There is quite a bit of difference between the two. The bell on the 'big one' is 19" while the bell on the 'solo' tuba is 17". This illustration shows the three basic Marzan horns... two sizes of tubas and on euphonium:


There were somewhat smaller 'solo' tubas built by Willson. I don't know if these were made in keys other than BBb. I only know about three or four of these but surely there were more around in the 70's.

Then.... there were some euphoniums built by Willson. I've only managed to document three or four of these.

Marzan is not a factory. Fred Marzan was a tuba instructor in Cincinnati who thought he had a 'better idea' for building a tuba. He worked with the folks at Bohm & Meinl for about a year in the early 70's. Many of the Marzan tubas were sold to his students. DEG (Getzen) and Custom Music were both distributors of the Marzan tubas but to my knowledge, no sales records are available.

I regard the Marzan horns as being 'pro level'.

TubaTinker wrote:

Alex C wrote:There were three sizes of Marzan's built that I've seen. ....

That's true if you include the Marzan euphonium.

Just for clarification and with the understanding that your experience with Marzan far outstrips mine:

I was classifying the small bore horns (like S.S.'s) as a different horn; they play differently. I would certainly accept your opinion that this is really the same horn with a different bore.

I believe that Mr. Marzan was more active in the building of the initial batches of instruments, thus my "built by Marzan" comment. The stories I heard at the time the horns came out indicated that. There is an extensive print interview with Mr. Marzan available somewhere which could correct me.

On the Mr. Tinker's websight, MW is credited with contributing to the large Marzan. Apparently, many tuba manufacturers contributed to Marzan's in some way.

I definitely agree that these are 'pro level' horns but not many are being used in high exposure situations, James Jenkins was about the most visible. I believe the preference has changed to a more Euro sound.

Alex C wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:

Alex C wrote:There were three sizes of Marzan's built that I've seen. ....

That's true if you include the Marzan euphonium.

I was classifying the small bore horns (like S.S.'s) as a different horn; they play differently. I would certainly accept your opinion that this is really the same horn with a different bore.

I believe that Mr. Marzan was more active in the building of the initial batches of instruments, thus my "built by Marzan" comment. The stories I heard at the time the horns came out indicated that. There is an extensive print interview with Mr. Marzan available somewhere which could correct me. ......

My intention is not to be argumentive. I've been trying to gather information about the Marzan horns for several years and some of the details remain somewhat of a mystery. I've even heard one story from a reliable source regarding why he opted for the 'tune on the fly' main slide. If you are interested in that story, I'll share it with you in a private email. I've also been chastised for referring to Fred Marzan as 'Dr.' Marzan. Someone mentioned that although he may have completed his doctoral requirements, the title was never bestowed upon him... don't know if there was something he didn't finish or what.

Both the B & M-built 'slant-rotor' and piston horns have the same bell (19"), bottom bow and large bugle components, and share the same bore (about .751"). Since the B & M-built horns are actually the same horn with different (although the same bore) valve sections... I am classifying these two as the same size horn. The playing characteristics are much different but in my opinion... technically they are the same size horn.

S.S.'s horn is one of the smaller Willson-built horns and is indeed a different size horn altogether.

It's assumed to be true that Fred Marzan did spend a full year at the B & M factory during the prototyping stages of the Marzan tubas. However, I doubt very seriously that he ever so much as soldered a single joint on any of the horns.

I believe the interview you refer to is probably the one done by Carole Nowicke in 1971 that used to be posted on the the TUBA/IMEA website. It may still be but I'm not a member so don't have access to the archives.

einahpets wrote:IS there anyplace I could find one of these large Marzan CC 5valve tubas for sell?

On hold, but who knows:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35532&hilit=marzan" target="_blank

A rotary version in Canada:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36715&p=321389&hilit=marzan#p321389" target="_blank

I regard the Marzan horns as being 'pro level'. Dan Schultz

I agree with Dan. To add to the list if Marzan players, Connie Weldon's last orchestral tuba was a Marzan BB flat (a very nice one I must add).

best,
Mark

James Jenkins used his until stolen last year.

TubaTinker wrote: The page from the DEG catalog shows the large tuba and the 'solo' tuba as being the same size. There is quite a bit of difference between the two. The bell on the 'big one' is 19" while the bell on the 'solo' tuba is 17".

Hey Dan, were there actually 17" bells? Mine is 17.75".

Tubaryan12 wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: The page from the DEG catalog shows the large tuba and the 'solo' tuba as being the same size. There is quite a bit of difference between the two. The bell on the 'big one' is 19" while the bell on the 'solo' tuba is 17".

Hey Dan, were there actually 17" bells? Mine is 17.75".

Don't know for a fact. I've not actually seen one of the Willson-built 'solo' model tubas but I seen to recall being told they have 17" bells.

Does your 'slant-rotor' with a 17 3/4" bell?

TubaTinker wrote: Does your 'slant-rotor' with a 17 3/4" bell?

Yes it does. Measured it again yesterday just to make sure. Is it possible, because of damage or some other reason, that someone would trim it?

Tubaryan12 wrote:

TubaTinker wrote: Does your 'slant-rotor' with a 17 3/4" bell?

Yes it does. Measured it again yesterday just to make sure. Is it possible, because of damage or some other reason, that someone would trim it?

Hmmm. I suppose anything is possible but the bells on both my 'slant-rotor' and piston horns are about 19". I took a look a the pictures of your horn and it appears that the 'MARZAN' logo is engraved differently than on either of my horns... and your bell does appear to be smaller in relation to the rest of your horn. The bell engraving on my horns is on the flare within about 3" of the rim while yours is engraved much farther down on the stack. The bore of your horn is surely the same as the rest of the 'big ones'... about .751". But, apparently, your horn either escaped with a different bell from the rest... or... perhaps the original bell was damaged and replaced by a smaller one. The engraving could have been done at any number of places with the placement more common to where most engraving appears. That's all very interesting.

I suppose it's possible that the bell was trimmed and re-wired because of damage. But It seems more feasible that yours could have been a prototype or the result of a bell replacement.

The Marzan engraving on my bell matches exactly the engraving on the 2 Marzan mouthpieces I sold a year or so ago, so who knows. I like the prototype idea.

I could not pass up buying a Marzan slanted rotary valve today. I really like the sound, I found out though this thread that my other one is called a solo. Thanks for all of the information found here and at linked sites to help me decide.

CCC

Charlie C Chowder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:36 pm I could not pass up buying a Marzan slanted rotary valve today. I really like the sound, I found out though this thread that my other one is called a solo. Thanks for all of the information found here and at linked sites to help me decide.

CCC

Photos would be appreciated!...

I have not figured out how to do that on here yet. But she is a little worn in the lacquer with a few bump. Other wise it looks just like al of the other pictures you can fine on this and linked sites. It is at Wally's getting the thumb ring moved. I have small hands, and will do the same thing with the Piston Solo. Not as heave as the York 6/4, but a little heaver then the Marzan Solo. I was told that it is still considered a 4/4 tuba. It came with a very nice hard case with wheels that seems to sell for a thousand new on the net, with a folding tuba floor stand and a nice collapsing music stand. I just have not introduced her to the wife yet. She is to big to hide.

CCC

Charlie C Chowder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:36 pm I could not pass up buying a Marzan slanted rotary valve today.
CCC

Awesome! I've had a couple of dozen slant-rotor horns over the last twenty years but failed to keep one for myself. There were no serial numbers on the Marzan rotary horns but if it's one I've seen or rebuilt... it will have a date code stamped into the paddle bar along with my initials.

Connie Weldon helped me rescue that silver 4P 1R detachable bell Marzan from the University of Miami where she was a mucky muck and the horn was languishing in Methods class. She called the tuba instructor Steve Johns or John Stevens, I always get that confused, and set up the deal.She had sold it to Don Mopsick when she decided to stop playing...Don was working at a place called the Levee in Ft. Meyers, and he then had to stop playing tuba, although he was able to continue on bass fiddle, with the stipulation that he'd sell it back to her if he ever sold it. I came onto that band as Don's replacement and played it at that time and it was pretty incredible but he honored his promise to Connie and sold it back to her. So about seven years later I called her out oh the blue and she told me to come on down with something to trade. The Marzan, by this time was toast.Upright bell was flowered, lots of dents ,and the fifth valve and corresponding tube circut was in a brown lunch bag. I swapped a Conn 2J for it and took it to Benard Voeller in Tampa and he rebuilt it. I used it alot. It recorded incredibly well and was Very well in tune with itself but for whatever dumb reason I sold it and started in with my silver King 2341.A guy in Orlando bought it and I lost track of it. But at least we got it out of methods class and back in the hands of a pro. That's it, Ed