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Hello all,

I would like some opinions on an inexpensive/budget BAT. I realize some money will need to be put down to afford one, I was just wondering where one might look for such a thing...if there is such a thing. I'm not looking to buy one, I just want opinions.

Joseph

PS-I'm also not looking for a "GET A 4/4, 5/4, 10/4, 6/7, 2/1, or whatever!" sort of mess. Thanks.

PSS-a BAT in CC or BBb...which is usually the case when talking about a BAT.

There was a big-*** Kallison for sale on here a while ago. That cool Conn 25J on here is about a 6/4 too.

Let's see...a BAT alternative? Alternative to what? It would help if you specified what key of tuba you'd like.

A BAT in EE-flat can be had quite inexpensively. Three-piston BB-flat horns will cost you a bit more, and a four-valve BB-flat is going to be at the high end of "inexpensive" unless it's a real junker.

My Giant Eb is probably as big as Eb's get, but I wouldn't consider it a BAT. Probably a BAEb.
I would say it is comparable to a 5/4 contrabass at the biggest (20" bell, .690 bore, 36" tall).

If you are talking about new, then a Cerveny 601 available in CC or BBb

I will second either of the big Kalisons. I miss mine, but the new owner is enjoying it immensley.

Here are the spec on them:

K2001 - Bore: 20mm (0.788"), 4th-5th valve 21mm (0.827")
Bell diameter: 495mm (19-1/2")
Height: 95cm (37-1/2")

Pro2000 - Bore: 20mm (0.788")
Bell diameter: 470mm (18-1/2")
Height: 90cm (35-1/2")

Pro2000: Ab on top of the staff may feel a little funky.
K2001: Open C above the staff 1/4 tone flat. (Play 1st and push all the way in.)

K2001 is VERY ergonomic. Both are a very conical design. Both horns are sized between a (real) 5/4 and 6/4 and do NOT have that "foghorn" sound that some BAT's are notorious for.

Either is MUCH bigger than a D.S.

Conn 20J or 21J. Inexpensive, huge sound, great tubas! These can fill up a concert hall with no problem. I've heard rumors that false tones and pedals on the 3 bangers can be played almost better in tune than the actual 4 valve versions can. I wouldn't be surpised because I have noticed this on my 20J how easy they come out.

Neptune wrote:If you are talking about new, then a Cerveny 601 available in CC or BBb

Here's a pic of me and my Cerveny CC tuba, model 601-5MR---------it's priced mid-range and is a fairly large horn. As a rough frame of reference, I'm 6' 2" 230 lbs.

I got my kalison 2000 Pro at a bargain basement price of $3500. It looks great from a distance, but up close it is pretty scarred from many boo boo fixes. But most importantly is plays well and I really like the sound I get on it.

This is completely theoretical, but is it possible to get a 6/4 tuba with a detachable bell-front with 3 front action valves, and have one of the few tuba "magicians" around the country convert it to upright bell with a 4 front action valve set?

And, if so...what would be a ballpark estimate on cost of such a conversion?

Remember, it's all theoretical...

Joseph

Yeah it's possible. Borodi Music in Cleveland converted my 20J bell to and upright bell and did a great job. I doubt they could add a valve though. If you wanted to find a 20J 3 top valve horn..you could buy a conn 22K or 20K valve set to mount on it. You'd have to get the bows flipped on the tuba so the whole thing is reversed. If you're lucky you'll find a Conn 22J with3 already front action valves(rare). I'm sure adding a 4th valve to a 20K sousa valve section is not THAT hard. I've seen it done multiple times. I would talk to Tubatom on here about his project because he is in the process of doing this right now. As far as the labor, I would choose Borodi Music for the bell...and Harvey Hartman (Harvs Happy Horns) for the bow flipping/mounting sousa valve set/adding 4th valve. He has done many of these type of projects and is a great honest guy to work with. You might could have this done for under 3 grand..not counting replating. it cost me almost 2 grand to get my bell conversion, valve job, and the horn replated. But good luck in whatever you decide to do

UTSAtuba wrote: And, if so...what would be a ballpark estimate on cost of such a conversion?

If you want it to look good and play well, it ain't cheap. $3K is pretty darn optimistic considering all of the custom work that needs to be done. As a ballpark guess, I'm guessing that you could buy two brand new Cerveny 601 CC/BBb 6/4 tubas for the labor charges to do it right.

Thanks guys for the responses.

The Big Ben wrote:

UTSAtuba wrote: And, if so...what would be a ballpark estimate on cost of such a conversion?

If you want it to look good and play well, it ain't cheap. $3K is pretty darn optimistic considering all of the custom work that needs to be done. As a ballpark guess, I'm guessing that you could buy two brand new Cerveny 601 CC/BBb 6/4 tubas for the labor charges to do it right.

Or...the price of a used BBb or CC BAT?

Joseph

UTSAtuba wrote:This is completely theoretical, but is it possible to get a 6/4 tuba with a detachable bell-front with 3 front action valves, and have one of the few tuba "magicians" around the country convert it to upright bell with a 4 front action valve set?

That is the catch. Most of the huge old tubas with removable bells were top action. Even with an upright bell, they still point the "wrong way." The front action ones usually command a considerably higher price to start with, thus making this less of an attractive alternative.

MartyNeilan wrote:

UTSAtuba wrote:This is completely theoretical, but is it possible to get a 6/4 tuba with a detachable bell-front with 3 front action valves, and have one of the few tuba "magicians" around the country convert it to upright bell with a 4 front action valve set?

That is the catch. Most of the huge old tubas with removable bells were top action. Even with an upright bell, they still point the "wrong way." The front action ones usually command a considerably higher price to start with, thus making this less of an attractive alternative.

I see. Yeah, the horn I looked at very quickly is the Holton 6/4 at Dillon Music (recording bell, 3 front valves). I'm not serious about it, just curious. Thanks for the other replies!

Joseph

Neptune wrote:If you are talking about new, then a Cerveny 601 available in CC or BBb

Hey Jonathan, you recently sold a Cerveny 701. Are there any differences between that tuba and a 601? The specs look the same on their site. Thanks!

Joseph

UTSAtuba wrote:

Neptune wrote:If you are talking about new, then a Cerveny 601 available in CC or BBb

Hey Jonathan, you recently sold a Cerveny 701. Are there any differences between that tuba and a 601? The specs look the same on their site. Thanks!

Joseph

I believe that a Cerveny 7xx is a rose brass version of a Cerveny 6xx.

steve_decker wrote:

UTSAtuba wrote:

Neptune wrote:If you are talking about new, then a Cerveny 601 available in CC or BBb

Hey Jonathan, you recently sold a Cerveny 701. Are there any differences between that tuba and a 601? The specs look the same on their site. Thanks!

Joseph

I believe that a Cerveny 7xx is a rose brass version of a Cerveny 6xx.

You are correct, sir!

Thanks for the clarification, guys!

How about a used VMI 3301 or 3302 (or the B&S version)? Though they might only be near-BATs, they come up for sale often enough around $3K-$4K in good condition.