TubeNet

Hey guys,

My sister is looking for a euphonium for her last year and a half of high school up through college. My parents and I are not really sure what she intends to do in college, it can be anywhere between non-major concert band, and full blown music major. We were wondering what brands we should look at. We have been through the instrument research process when I was in the market for a tuba, but we have little to no idea what is good and what is bad in the world of euphoniums.

What is she going to do with the euph? If she's going to go for a performance major, try to sit first chair in band, get a scholarship with it, try to take her playing as far as she can, etc., then yes, a full-blown, top-of-the-line euph from Besson, Willson, Sterling, York, HB, etc., even the top model Yammy are good, and there are good used examples to be had.

But if she's going to play it as a pasttime, sitting in the middle of the section with only moderate demands on her time and playing, then a 4-valve non-comp euph, like a Yammy, King, even Jupiter, will do well and be much, much less expensive.

Decide the purpose, use, ensemble, repertoire and budget first. Then go shopping.

And good used name-brand comp euphs are starting @$2000, not $1000.

bloke wrote:Her plans currently seem too up-in-the-air for anyone but her (and her financiers) to make this decision.

...Which is why I am just asking around for brands that are worth checking out since the only brand we have experience with is Meinl Weston, the company that made my tuba, and my parents say there is no way she's getting one of those. Haha


Thanks for the reccomendations so far. We are going to take a trip to BBC in the future to see what Mr. Fedderly has along the lines of used euphs. Yamaha was the first thing that came to my mind since the euphonium prof at WVU plays one, as well as a few students I know.

tuben wrote:Buy used (in no order):

Besson
Willson
Yamaha
Hirsbrunner

You should be able to find something four valve, compensating for around $1000.

Non-compensating, perhaps; but I am extremely skeptical that one could find a compensating euphonium in playable condition from one of those makers for around $1000 ... unless you're talking 1970 dollars.

pgym wrote:

tuben wrote:Buy used (in no order):

Besson
Willson
Yamaha
Hirsbrunner

You should be able to find something four valve, compensating for around $1000.

Non-compensating, perhaps; but I am extremely skeptical that one could find a compensating euphonium in playable condition from one of those makers for around $1000 ... unless you're talking 1970 dollars.

This is true. And... be careful what you purchase. At least one of those grand old names (Besson) can be a real bugger to get parts for if the horn needs repairs.

I'd recommend a Yamaha 321

You might also check out the Dillon 4 valve non-comp, the Tuba Exchange euph, and possibly the Schiller 4 valve comp that is cheaper than their non-comp.

goodsn4 wrote:You might also check out the Dillon 4 valve non-comp, the Tuba Exchange euph, and possibly the Schiller 4 valve comp that is cheaper than their non-comp.

One of the guys in our tuba/euph quartet bought one of the Dillon 4 valve non-comp. It looks very nice in silver plate. The sound is ok. It however has some real intonation challenges. This may or may not be unique to the one he has since I've never seen/heard another one.

Without knowing your budget, it's realHard to tell.

My son got a euph as a HS graduation present when he went off to Rochester. No, not Eastman, U of R. No, not a music major - computer science (Google pays very well, thank you). He had played a number of school-owned horns throughout HS (King and Besson, mostly). We did the usual testing and guessing about what he would actually need.

The truth is, with such vague specs, it's likely that *any* mainstream euph will do. Compensating/non-compensating, etc. - the bottom line is that if she doesn't know enough to have a strong opinion, then her opinion is correct: if she doesn't care...then it doesn't matter! Don't stray too far from the middle ground, and you can't go wrong.

Oh yeah - we decided on a new Yamaha 621, purchased from Dillon's (hey Matt - pick out a good one and ship it!) We had visited Dillons to play test when we were looking, but did not feel the need to select "the one".

Yes, new is expensive. My view was that this was the euph that he could use for 40 years. It served him well in Rochester, and (while his playing is in hiatus at the moment) he still has it and is completely satisfied with it. It's in perfect condition and would probably bring about 75% of the original purchase price if he ever wanted to get rid of it. There's no sign that he would want to trade it for anything else.

So - that's *one* choice. I don't think it's even close to being the *only* choice. But, I can't imagine it being even close to being the *wrong* choice (for someone who is not already expressing some sort of brand/style preference for something else).

And finally - the one nice thing about Yamaha euphs - if you've played one, you've played them all. I would have no qualms about buying one (new) sight-unseen (from a reputable dealer).

cdtuba wrote:

...Which is why I am just asking around for brands that are worth checking out since the only brand we have experience with is Meinl Weston, the company that made my tuba, and my parents say there is no way she's getting one of those. Haha

What is the problem with Meinl Weston? I like their tubas but I'm not familiar with their euphs. Are their euphs a POS?

Teubonium wrote:
What is the problem with Meinl Weston? I like their tubas but I'm not familiar with their euphs. Are their euphs a POS?

Not that. I would assume their euphs are of the same quality as their tubas. My parents just don't want to spend a bucket load of cash when we have no clue what my sis will do in school.

I'd throw in a recommendation for the Nirschl i700 non-compensating or the i800 compensating euphoniums. These are a lot better than the Jupiter and Eastman euphs and quite a bit cheaper than the European 'artist' euphoniums.

I don't know if you could win the Marine Band Audition on a Nirschl but then, your sister is not auditioning for the Marine Band.

For plain cheap, the Tuba Exchange non-compensating euphonium ain't half bad.

Nothing I've seen priced lower has been any good.

Hi-
Buy a Schiller 4v lacquer comp euph from Jim Laabs Music for $885 plus shipping--it is an exact copy of a Yamaha 642. I have one and it is excellent. Two pros have Willsons and they like my horn better--in fact, one ordered one of these! The trombone section here in Buffalo checked mine out--I brought it in while filling in for Don for a week and they checked it out--they loved it, and least one-maybe all of them-will be ordering the Schiller euph. Without a doubt the best buy on the planet--along with the Schiller CC tuba also! My 2 cents.
Regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank

jonesmj, are you on the level about the Schiller CC tuba? I've been standing by with a grain of salt but don't know what to do with it.

Someone recommended the Eastman euphoniums and I've seen half a dozen of them since Thanksgiving. Each of them had some small problem, like the receiver wasn't completely soldered onto the leadpipe or the third valve had the wrong piston in it, or the case wouldn't close with the horn in it. Minor things which could be fixed if you knew what the problem was. Unfortunately, most people don't have the background to know what the problem is, much less fix it. So I'm very skeptical of Eastman, Schiller and the like.

Over many years I have owned Besson, Willson (compensating) Yamaha, Bach & Jupiter (four valve non compensating) euphoniums. I have ditched them all for various reasons (late model Besson - poor manufacturing quality, Willson too expensive, Yamaha - valve issues, Jupiter - metal too light and a sound too bright) for the best kept secret in euphs - the KING 2280. This four valve horn has the largest bore of all the non compensating euphs, by far the biggest and warmest sound, excellent manufacturing standards and a great case. The third valve has a spring loaded trigger, and when used with the eight-inch fourth valve slide pull, you have a manual form of compensation at a fraction of the price of auto compensating horns. WWBW sell these for $2400 new, and they are a steal. You will be hard pressed to differentiate their tone from that of the traditional compensating horns.

euphomate wrote:The third valve has a spring loaded trigger, and when used with the eight-inch fourth valve slide pull, you have a manual form of compensation at a fraction of the price of auto compensating horns.

I always thought that with the 2 4th valve slides, the kicker should have been put on one of them. But I think I understand what you mean! What low range fingerings do you use? I would guess tune the 4th valve so that low E and Eb are in tune 24 and 14 (possibly splitting the difference), playing low F 13 and kicker, D 34, Db 234 (and kicker?), C 134, B all 4 and kicker.

Hi-
Yes, what I said re. the Schiller Elite comp euph. and the Schiller 5 valve CC tuba are 100% true--amazing deals. Great playing, great price--great deals.
I have noticed that Schiller has raised--or should I say not ebay discounted for a while-- the price on their 5 valve lacquer CC so it is in the mid $2k's--like Baltimore Brass JZ, Tuba Exchange TE, M&M 5 v CC, and Dillon CC. Still a terrific price for a fine horn.
However, the comp. euph, which is the Schiller best seller for their brass and woodwinds-is still at $885 plus ship. for lacquer. The fellow in the area who carries Eastman products is amazed they can sell the comp. euph that cheap--he looked it over, and even the valve guide assembly is a dead ringer for a 642 Yamaha. It plays super!
I don't know how the W. Nirschl euphs are, but if they are anything like the BBb tuba, they should be fantastic (can't wait to play the CC tuba!).
BTW, I have heard that some new Chinese tuba imported models--not sure if piston, what size, CC and/or BBb and/or F tubas... may show up at the Army Tuba Conference..it should be interesting...

mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank

I've played the newest pro level Nirschl euphonium. It had a few intonation problems but overall the feel was kind of akin to a Weril (which is an excellent non-comp choice for $1,000k).

elimia wrote:I've played the newest pro level Nirschl euphonium. It had a few intonation problems but overall the feel was kind of akin to a Weril

Which stands to reason since they're now made by Weril.

Having tried the Indian and the Brazilian Nirschl compensating euphs, I have to say I wasn't particularly impressed. (Of course, the same is true of the Eastman, Tuba Exchange, Dillon, and Tuba MM stencils I've tried.) Yes, they're compensators, so in that sense, they can be termed "pro level," but compared to the offerings of established manufacturers (Besson, Willson, Yamaha, Sterling, Miraphone, York, etc., they feel light and less substantial, which makes me wonder how well they would hold up under the practice and performance load of a euph performance major or professional. More importantly, both when playing and hearing they played side-by-side with premium euphs, the "step-up" euphs sound is thin and lacking in depth, color, and presence. So while they are good horns for the money, and would probably be adequate for non-music and non-euph performance majors, I am somewhat skeptical that any of the current crop of inexpensive stencil eups would prove adequate to the demands of professional, aspiring professional, or serious, high-level amateur euph performers.

IMHO, the best horn for the money is STILL the YEP-321 Yamaha. Get the silver. CAll http://www.hornguys.com" target="_blank