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Isn't this the MW 2141 (or the other way around...) with a different slide layout and possibly a slightly larger bell? The 2141, for sure, rocks!
I would have one (and was talking to someone about buying theirs back when I had for-real tuba money; was ALSO talking to a guy after that about a trade for the rotary 2040/5 ) except that it is a bit awkward for a tall person with long arms.

This is a model I have also not come across before. Out of interest, are they exclusively made for Custom Music? The PT-22P is not shown in the B&S catalogue and although the PT designation would indicate Bob Tucci was involved in the design, he does not appear to sell from his shop.

This is the official horn of Tom Holtz. He was insistent upon this make and model for good reason.

Very nice horn.

Wish I would have learned my trumpet fingerings better.

When I was shopping for a bass tuba, I was looking for a horn that blended well within an ensemble rather than a "soloistic" tuba. As such, I was willing to accept either an F or an Eb.

One of my stops was at Custom Music. I had called ahead, so Jeff had all of the Perantucci and Hirsbrunner F and Eb tubas out for me to try. I did play nearly every one. The horn that impressed me the most was a model with which I, like Bloke, was not familiar--the PT-22P. Beautiful, well balanced tone, easy to play from high to low range. If I had not encountered a privately owned used Besson 983 at a good price, I might have seriously considered buying the PT-22P.

On the same search, I also liked a used F tuba that Bloke had for sale in his soon-to-be-closed shop.

GREAT HORNS. A guy in my wind ensemble plays exclusively on a PT-22. I agree, it doesn't have that F tuba sound, but a larger, "big" tuba sound. Alone, it can fill up a concert hall if needed. And it blends VERY nicely with the BBb tubas in the section. That tuba really sings with a PT-64 mouthpiece, which is wonderful for solo playing or chamber music. Also, any generic smaller cup mouthpieces work well. I used my Conn 2 on it and was suprised at how well that sounded and responded. A larger cup mouthpiece such as a PT-42 works very well for large ensembles as it gives that horn a darker/mellow sound, much like a large C tuba. If I branch out one day to Eb horns , this would be the one I'd get. I'd recommend this horn to any serious Eb player. If somebody were trying to play exclusively on an Eb horn for everything...this would be the way to go (along with a Willson 3400). GREAT HORNS!!

Anybody have any pictures of this finely described piece of musical art. It does sound intriguing.

I'll take a picture Tuesday. I haven't seen any pics of them other than the generic factory photo.

TUbajohn20J wrote:I'll take a picture Tuesday. I haven't seen any pics of them other than the generic factory photo.

It would be interesting if you check the model number engraved on the bell as well!

LJV wrote:PT22 = MW2141 + PT slide layout + an 19" Eb-style bell

The MW 2141 has a 17" bell which gives it more focus and what some feel is a more F tuba sound. Adding 2" slightly broadens out the sound. 2" is just enough to make a difference. Any less and it wouldn't noticeable.

Sounds like it might be the tuba for those who like the broader Besson 981/982 Eb kind of sound, but want front valves???

Neptune wrote:Sounds like it might be the tuba for those who like the broader Besson 981/982 Eb kind of sound, but want front valves???

Either the PT-22P or the Besson 983 (which Buffet Crampon is offering again) would fit that description.

The 983 has that broader sound, but it is also very mouthpiece sensitive. Timbre changes quite noticeably with different mouthpieces. That is not necessarily a detrimental trait. Of course, like the 981/982, the 983 has the 4-valve compensating system (as opposed to the PT-22P's non-compensating 5-valve set up), albeit front action.

My guess is that a new PT-22P would be a more expensive horn than the 2141 or the 983, partially because Custom Music retains its exclusivity with Perantucci.

The PT-22P actually has a 18" bell.

I suppose this is another big-hands, big-person tuba? I wonder how tubas would be designed if the average size of tuba players were quite a bit smaller....although I admit I think I may have found "my" instrument in the euphonium, lately.

MA

MaryAnn wrote:I suppose this is another big-hands, big-person tuba? I wonder how tubas would be designed if the average size of tuba players were quite a bit smaller....although I admit I think I may have found "my" instrument in the euphonium, lately.

MA

Well, for example, my hands don't like the "big" valve blocks. After I got my 186 my tech and I spent a couple of hours repositioning the leadpipe and receiver angle, the thumbring, and the spread, length, angle and offset of each of the paddles. The retrofit detachable St Pete bell keeps the "stovepipe" from being so tall, so it is much more maneuverable. And the overall bows, and leadpipe, being a generation older, are slightly smaller in diameter than current manufacture, although the valve block is the same bore.

Something like a St Pete or Cerveny Eb with rotors, or a Miraphone 185, as opposed to its more famous sibling 186, an M-W "Handy," or such, and a couple of hours fitting everything should do well for a person of such stature.

As an Eb player mainly, I'm drooling here - but I see no pics and no listings on Custom Music's site or VMI/B&S' sites. Is it an illusion? A dream?

My Boosey & Hawkes is aging... she'll need to be replaced by something else in Eb.

J.c.S.

Thanks to Mr. Google I was able to find a listing on the OLD Custom Music site.

http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/pt22P.html

I'll have to remember to take some pics. Can't believe there aren't any online somewhere.

I have a PT-22 at work. Use it all the time, including in the section. I use smaller mouthpieces on it, and play it like an Eb, not a BAT. We got BAT's if we need 'em. Last week's concert section was me, Paul Mergen with his PT-606, and Frank Crawford with the HB-50 that Dave Fedderly used in the BSO. All the bases covered.

I have a Besson 983 at home. Use it all the time, including quintet, jazz, recording, whatever. Used it on a bunch of Marine Band concerts, including the West Side Story recording we did a few years ago. That horn saved my bacon.

They are definitely different tubas. I suspect that most people would really like one and not care much for the other. No, it doesn't drive me crazy switching between a 5v-noncomp and a 4v-comp. They're both easy and fun to play. I know eefers aren't everyone's thang, but it's working for me.

Tom Holtz wrote:All the bases covered.

Pun intended? Looking forward to the pix!

Tom Holtz wrote:I have a PT-22 at work. Last week's concert section was me, Paul Mergen with his PT-606, and Frank Crawford with the HB-50 that Dave Fedderly used in the BSO. All the bases covered.

Hey Tom,
Interesting

My experience (for what it's worth):

I did a tour in the '90s with Keith Brion's New Sousa Band and the section was Marty Erickson (Willson Eb), Mark Jones (MW 2165), and me (MW 2145).
We got a lot of positive comments about the sound of our section from other band members, especially the trombones.

Best wishes,
Tim Loehr

I haven't heard it mentioned, but the best Eb I've played is the Yamaha 3+1

Response is wonderful. I describe it as playing more like an F tuba than a bulky EEb like Bessons, and even the Willson.

Just my $0.02

LJV wrote:

ThomasP wrote:I haven't heard it mentioned, but the best Eb I've played is the Yamaha 3+1.

+1

I didn't get to side-by-side it, but I did try the Yamaha 3+1 and it felt bigger and broader than my Imperial. A little. But I can't be sure, but it was certainly outstanding. The 321/381 Yamahas are outstanding as well (should be - they're Imperial copies!).

Wish there was a 3+1 left facing instrument out there... I love 3+1, but it's socially not very acceptable and many orchestras are set up expecting the lefty bell.

J.c.S.