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Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:22 am
by pierso20
a_kumar wrote:Has anyone got chart for 6v F tuba? I need a chart with as many alternative fingerings as possible, hope you got something like that
Just figure it out.
The 6th valve doesn't REALLY do much, so find some notes that aren't in-tune without it, and add it.
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:49 pm
by Bob Kolada
Bloke, how does 654 compare to 234?
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:52 pm
by bisontuba
Hi-
Go to the Meinl Weston/Meltom website-in GERMAN, not English--choose 'Service--scroll down to FAQ (frequently asked questions)-pick F tuba 5 & 6 valve fingerings--there it is--use Babelfish for translations or brush up on your German. Good luck.
regards-
mark
jonestuba@juno.com" target="_blank
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:49 pm
by MartyNeilan
Truthfully, every horn is different down there and there are so many variables involved.
This is probably going to be your best fingering chart:
(Remember, there are no "bad" choices down there, whatever works best.
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:27 pm
by iiipopes
MartyNeilan wrote:Truthfully, every horn is different down there and there are so many variables involved.
This is probably going to be your best fingering chart:
(Remember, there are no "bad" choices down there, whatever works best.
Indeed! I have one in my tuba satchel, my guitar gig tool box, and a spare or two. You can find them on sale for less than $20. Get several. Live by them. Especially on my guitars, I've tried everything from the cutsy-clip-ons to large rack-mounted tuners. These are the best from any criteria: accuracy, cost, portability, durability (I've dropped mine several times to the case opening and the batteries rolling out. Just shove it back together and keep going.)
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:19 am
by Pozzie
From the German Melton website...
http://melton.de/index.php?eID=tx_cms_s ... 0a6445c668" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:14 pm
by sloan
Re-inforcing the conclusion that the 6th valve is used if and only if the fingering given in the fingering chart doesn't quite work.
Can a 7th valve be far behind?
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:30 pm
by pierso20
bloke wrote:sloan wrote:
Re-inforcing the conclusion that the 6th valve is used if and only if the fingering given in the fingering chart doesn't quite work.
Can a 7th valve be far behind?
I'd rather have seven or eight buttons or spatulas
(far fewer things to mash than woodwind players or keyboard players) than (for silky-smooth intonation) yank on slides all the time.
Yes...except those players aren't also using their embouchure and lips for notes (yes...they use it to help with pitch...but NOT for whole partials like us).
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:15 pm
by sloan
bloke wrote:sloan wrote:
Re-inforcing the conclusion that the 6th valve is used if and only if the fingering given in the fingering chart doesn't quite work.
Can a 7th valve be far behind?
I'd rather have seven or eight buttons or spatulas (far fewer things to mash than woodwind players or keyboard players) than (for silky-smooth intonation) yank on slides all the time.
Call for Dr. Young!
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:08 pm
by imperialbari
On trombone only the ear can tell you right or wrong. Too flat - pull in. Too sharp - push out.
On the trombone one can work with infinitely small changes in length of slide. On valved instruments the same goes to some degree in form of slide pulling/pushing or applying of trigger movements. Despite the less flexible, or in some cases non-existing, options for precise slide adjustments I tend to think trombone (that is: thinking in lengths of tubing), when I play valved instruments.
I have no 6 valve instruments, but I have 3 with 5 valves, all having a long semitone in the 5th slide.
Valve slide lengths are not exactly comparable to trombone positions, but I find it helpful to be aware of the sequence of valve slide lengths as the starting point from where I more or less intuitively choose fingering permutations.
A 6 valve tuba has 64 fingering permutations from 0 through 123456.
64 potential fingerings/slide-lengths within an octave cannot compare to a bass trombone, but still it is a pretty high number.
Every tuba is different from all other tubas. There are an infinite number of oddities in tuning problems with tubas. Just tuning demands many fine adjustments of pitch.
Calculating all potential permutations of acoustical odditities and ideal pitches in various chord situations is impossible.
However it is possible to calculate the sequence of fingerings associated with increasing length of tubing in an ideal 6 valve tuba tuned to equal temperature and with the following valve set-up:
2nd valve lowers the main bugle 1 semitone
1st valve lowers the main bugle 2 semitones
3rd valve lowers the main bugle 3 semitones
4th valve lowers the main bugle 5 semitones
5th valve lowers the main bugle 7 semitones, when combined with the 4th valve
6th valve lowers the main bugle 6 semitones, when combined with the 4th valve
I have attached a table divided over two pages of the sequence of fingerings for lowering this said ideal tuba in the smallest possible increments. But for tubas with different valve set-ups or with very odd tuning this sequence should go for all 6 valve F tubas.
I have placed the ideal equal tempered intervals to the right of the fingering providing the closest length of tubing.
Klaus
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:33 pm
by Kevin Hendrick
sloan wrote:
Re-inforcing the conclusion that the 6th valve is used if and only if the fingering given in the fingering chart doesn't quite work.
Can a 7th valve be far behind?
Already been done:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36316&p=318636
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:35 pm
by imperialbari
Sorry for those downloading the first version of the tables. Despite successful eye surgery I am still very cross eyed, which made for a couple of errors in the lining-up of items.
Klaus
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:49 pm
by sloan
Very precise, Klaus.
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm
by sloan
bloke wrote:sloan wrote:
Re-inforcing the conclusion that the 6th valve is used if and only if the fingering given in the fingering chart doesn't quite work.
Can a 7th valve be far behind?
I'd rather have seven or eight buttons or spatulas (far fewer things to mash than woodwind players or keyboard players) than (for silky-smooth intonation) yank on slides all the time.
Have you considered the accordian?
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:44 pm
by Dean E
Thanks Klaus.
Your chart clears up some questions I have had after reading different fingering charts.
I have seen G below the staff, on a 5-valve F tuba, as both (2-3-4-5 pulling 5th) and (1-3-4-5).
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:51 pm
by Dean E
This pic makes me think about how many valves are needed for a tuba design.
PDCIITuba wrote:sorry posted the picture wrong but here it is again
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:56 pm
by Dean E
iiipopes wrote:MartyNeilan wrote:Truthfully, every horn is different down there and there are so many variables involved.
This is probably going to be your best fingering chart:
(Remember, there are no "bad" choices down there, whatever works best.
Indeed! I have one in my tuba satchel, my guitar gig tool box, and a spare or two. You can find them on sale for less than $20. Get several. Live by them. Especially on my guitars, I've tried everything from the cutsy-clip-ons to large rack-mounted tuners. These are the best from any criteria: accuracy, cost, portability, durability (I've dropped mine several times to the case opening and the batteries rolling out. Just shove it back together and keep going.)
I agree. I bought a cheapo, clip-on mic to use when there is room noise.
I could be wrong, but I assume that those small Korg tuners only measure overtones and not the fundamental frequencies of tubas playing below the staff. I'll have to do some research and learn what the manufacturer states their range to be.
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:52 am
by imperialbari
bloke wrote:Charts such as those are interesting (thank-you, Klaus), theoretically, but don't allow for various (most...??) models' quirks which can actually ASSIST a certain valve combination (which "theoretically" shouldn't be "mathematically" correct) into being absolutely perfect for a given pitch.
What bloke says stays well within my original disclaimers. Where my charts may have a purpose is about showing all fingering permutations sequenced according to increasing lengths of tubing. The increments in some areas are very small, and even if they may not be congruent with the actual increments of any tuba at all, then these charts allow players to sit down with their tuners and work through all permutations without the suspicion that they might have let out just the right fingering option. These charts are meant as as tools in the decision process of the single player.
As mentioned I don’t have any 6 valve instruments, but I would use a table like this one, if I had to help a player of such instrument.
For owners of the more common F tubas with 5 valves and a long whole step in the 5th these comments:
A 5-valve tuba only has half as many permutations, namely 32. However you may realize, that all of these are contained in the charts above here. Just ignore any fingering using the 6th valve. Maybe I will make a chart for this 5 valve layout, as it also will work for most CC tubas.
Klaus
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:06 am
by imperialbari
Sort of clarification:
The right fingering for a given note may certainly not be the one I pointed to as the ideal one for the ideal theoretical tuba. But be sure your ideal fingering is in the table, with or without slide pulling. There simply are no potential fingering permutations available on a 6 valve instrument, which are not in the table.
Klaus
Re: Fingering chart, F tuba with 6 valves
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:08 pm
by imperialbari
One insane idea:
Is there a young maverick out there with a 6 valve F tuba, who would memorize all the fingerings in the above table and rush them off in a microtonal almost glissando between the two first partials. Please record the flourish upwards and downwards and send me the mp3.
I don’t think older guys can do that. My own, extremely valid, excuse i, that i don’t have a 6 valve instrument.
Klaus
