TubeNet

Josef Rieder wrote:Okay so I play tuba in my University's orchestra and presently play a CC. I was told, in order to not have learn new fingerings I could play the parts on a BBb horn since bass clef does not transpose. Is this feasible? Are there any intonation problems that I will run into? I am still fairly new to the world of bass clef so help here would be appreciated.

I don't think it works that way. You're going to have to use BBb fingerings if you use a BBb horn.

Play on whichever horn that you sound the best on, regardless of key.

Keep it simple...

It sounds like you are already comfortable on the C tuba. Just keep playing it. What new fingerings would you have to learn at this point?

I think there is some confusion here, especially as in your other thread you mention playing 2 different Bb tubas.
(Mostly) All tuba parts in bass clef are at concert pitch. For example, a Bb below the staff would be played-
open on a Bb tuba
1 on a C tuba
13 or 4 on an Eb tuba
54 (other combinations occasionally) on an F tuba
open pedal on a Bb euphonium

Thanks for the response. I'm still incredibly confused...what was the question again?

You seem to be proficient on tubas. That being the case, I can't believe that I understand your question. It seems like you are asking if you can use a Bb tuba to avoid learning new fingerings. You can't.

Josef Rieder wrote:Okay so I play tuba in my University's orchestra and presently play a CC. I was told, in order to not have learn new fingerings I could play the parts on a BBb horn since bass clef does not transpose. Is this feasible? Are there any intonation problems that I will run into? I am still fairly new to the world of bass clef so help here would be appreciated.

Josef,

Generally speaking, tuba parts are NON-TRANSPOSING. Like Bob said, what you see is what you hear, a second-space C is always going to sound like a C. In contrast, saxophones are generally TRANSPOSING instruments. A Bb tenor sax playing middle C will sound as a Bb, an Eb alto sax playing the same written middle C will sound as an Eb. Just because the tuba parts in band may say "BBb tuba" does NOT mean that a C will sound as BBb. In other words, unless the part is actually transposed, you'll have to learn the fingerings for the tuba you're on.
Yes, I know some of the "modern" band literature coming out of europe does transpose the tuba parts, but that's just inconvenient for the rest of us and unnecessary work for the composer/printer.

I'm sooooo confused!

Just play it on a kazoo.

Josef Rieder wrote:Okay so I play tuba in my University's orchestra and presently play a CC. I was told, in order to not have learn new fingerings I could play the parts on a BBb horn since bass clef does not transpose. Is this feasible? Are there any intonation problems that I will run into? I am still fairly new to the world of bass clef so help here would be appreciated.

It sounds like whoever told you that doesn't understand the tuba world.

As said by other tubenetters, the tuba is non-transposing. Which means every part you see is the same in reference to pitch (CC or BBb not withstanding). They may be equating your instrument to this the saxophone (for example) in which all the fingers are the same for all the notes on EVERY sax, but the actual pitches aren't the same.

On tuba, if you play a C on a CC horn and then that same C on the BBb horn, you still get a C. The fingerings are just different.

Just ignore what "advice" you received in regards to transposing, etc. Just know that you can play ANY tuba part on any tuba...there will just be different fingers.

INSTRUMENTS don't transpose - arrangers do that.

In the USA, (almost) all tuba music is written at concert pitch. The notes on the page stay the same, but the
player must use different fingerings on different tubas to get those notes to sound correctly.

The major exception is British Brass Band music. There, the notes on the page are different for a BBb tuba than they are for an Eb tuba. If you want a BBb and an Eb to play the same sound - you must write different notes on the page. If you write the SAME note on the page, the BBb and Eb players use the same fingerings, but different notes actually sound.

Does a tuba become a "transposing instrument" when you bring it to Brass Band rehearsal?

Does a tuba revert to being a "non-transposing instrument" when you bring it to Wind Ensemble?

No. The instrument is the instrument. Whether the MUSIC is "transposed" is a matter of custom/tradition. It changes from place to place and time to time.

It's the MUSIC that is "transposed"...or not.

So - to answer the OP - you can play your band music on a BBb using your CC fingerings and you will have only one "intonation problem". The "intonation problem" will be that all of your notes will be a full step flat. Just lip them up, and you'll be OK.

[quote="sloan"]INSTRUMENTS don't transpose - arrangers do that.

It's the MUSIC that is "transposed"...or not.

quote]

This is a good point. However, I would mention that often this is exactly what people mean (I hope) and is just a point of semantics. The clarinet is a "transposing instrument" by definition but it's the music that is transposed. Of course, speaking of semantics, the phrase "transposing instrument" doesn't necessarily mean that the instrument is doing the transposing. It could refer to the fact that it is with this instrument that one would have to transpose. It's all moot anyhow.....we just learn fingerings...except with brass band...as you pointed out....not that I think transposing is really something with merit anywa

I noticed that the original poster's list of instruments in his signature showed a YBB103 and a Conn 24J, both of which are BBb instruments. What CC instrument are you playing in orchestra, since you didn't list a CC tuba to begin with?

Josef Rieder wrote:Okay so I play tuba in my University's orchestra and presently play a CC. I was told, in order to not have learn new fingerings I could play the parts on a BBb horn since bass clef does not transpose. Is this feasible? Are there any intonation problems that I will run into? I am still fairly new to the world of bass clef so help here would be appreciated.

The parts you are playing in orchestra are not CC parts or BBb parts (or Eb or F)--------they are simply tuba parts written in bass clef at concert pitch. To respond to your question: Yes, it is feasible to play the parts on a BBb tuba and use regular BBb fingerings. If you are more proficient with BBb tuba fingerings, then use a BBb tuba on those orchestra parts (second line Bb fingered open). Likewise, if you are more proficient with CC tuba fingerings, then use a CC tuba (second line Bb fingered 1.)

In some arrangements the tuba voice written in standard bass clef is called "C-Tuba" or "Tuba in C" on top of the page, meaning "concert pitch=C". This leads to the question "why do you play the C-Tuba voice, since you have a Bb instrument?" Perhaps it's that what confuses the OP?

Gerd, also sometimes confused...

pierso20 wrote:

sloan wrote:INSTRUMENTS don't transpose - arrangers do that.

It's the MUSIC that is "transposed"...or not.

quote]

This is a good point. However, I would mention that often this is exactly what people mean

One can hope - but experience shows that this is not so.

Note that there USED TO BE "transposing instruments" - but we threw the crooks out.

sloan wrote:Note that there USED TO BE "transposing instruments" - but we threw the crooks out.

Didn't want 'em "horning in" on the action?

Actually, some organs have "transposers" -- here's an article (with link to sound file) explaining how one seems to have been used accidentally, with ... um ... "interesting" results:

http://sinden.org/2007/05/crack-messiah ... st-on.html

My brain is starting to hurt!

I went back and re-read the OP's original post. I read it as he is a BBb guy that has access to a CC for use in orchestra (was probably told "you're supposed to play a CC in orchestra"). He is having difficulty with the CC fingerings and wants to know if there are any issues with using a BBb in orchestra with it's more familiar (to him) fingerings. That's my take on his post.

If that is the intention of the post, then, if your more comfortable on a BBb, then by all means, play a BBb.

JohnMCooper wrote:If that is the intention of the post, then, if your more comfortable on a BBb, then by all means, play a BBb.

The Russians play exclusively BBb in orchestra and some German orchestral tubists predominantly use BBb - so no reason not to play BBb in orchestra if you prefer to CC.

Use your big Conn most of the time and pull out the small Yamaha for French repertoire. Should work fine!

Seriously? What happened to the troll patrol?

Give me an

R

Give me an

UH

Isn't that what beauty queens wear? A T-R-UH?