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I reckon the baritone is one of the most difficult instruments to play, it links with the trombones, the euphoniums and the tenor horns, the 2nd baritone line also links with the tubas. These are multiple timbres and the intonation is subtly different within the band. As for the instruments, the Sovereign is a fine instrument, good quality build and quite in tune with itself. Does it require a 4th valve? probably not. Good luck.

Peter Birch hit on the head when he said trhat the baritone is one of the most difficult to play, having to match with three different sections. I have played the 3 valve Besson 955 and prefer it to the York 3056 I am playing now. The 3-valve Besson 955/York 3055 are well built and play fairly well in tune, respond well and blow reasonably freely. The older 4-valve Besson-designed baritones are "nuther thing" all together.

The York 3056 is really the older Besson 956 (4 valve) design. The Besson 956/York 3056 are a somewhat "bastardized" design since the compensating loops are borrowed from the 3 valve compensator and are too short to work well with the 4th valve. Further, the 4th valve tubing is crammed into the horn with some extremely tight double loops in a way that makes the 4th valve very stuffy and not all that useful. I find that I am using more alternate fingerings on the York than I ever thought possible. Just about any 1-2 fingering (usually sharp) plays better in tune with third valve instead. I pull the 4th valve slide out quite a bit to compensate for the fact that the compensating system doesnt work well on this horn.

The new Besson 2056 Prestige is a complete redesign with proper 4-valve compensating loops and a much less restrictive tubing layout. While I have not had a chance to play one, I think it is likely to be far superior to the older 956 design (which Besson has discontinued).

Doug Ruby
1st baritone - New England Brass Band

Because of the more cylindrical nature of the baritone horn, I have never been a fan of the 4-valve models, because the low range gets grainy in a hurry. Moreover, all 4-valve comp instruments have no better intonation characteristics than "conventional" 4 valve instruments on the first three valves, whether singly or in combination, because the compensation only works on the 4th valve combinations, which to my ears don't have the tone down low to properly take advantage of them anyway.

OTOH, a 3-valve comp setup is not only theoretically, but as perfected by Besson over the last 136 years, has damn near perfect intonation. The tradeoffs are that some notes can be stuffy, and 1+2+3 can be a tad sharp, but no more sharp or in need of lipping than most horns' 1+2 combination to not be sharp.

But on a baritone horn, there is one quirk: the 2nd valve comp loop, to bring 2+3 down to pitch, is right at its limit on how short it can be and still be a full loop. So if a player is not careful, 2+3 on a 3-valve comp baritone horn can be just a hair flat.

Other than that, I'll take a 3-valve baritone horn over a 4-valve baritone horn any day. If a baritone player wants to play the low range of a 4-valve, then there is bass bone, euph, and Eb tuba to switch to. The baritone horn is just that: baritone. The 4th valve low range sounds on the horn just like a true operatic baritone trying to sing true operatic bass parts: edgy and grainy.

The old Besson 3-valve compensator baritone that I used in brass band is a fine horn for the purpose. Recently I took a chance and bought the Schiller 3-valve compensator. The inscription on it says Frankfurt, Germany, but I'm certain that it was made in China. Dispite that it is a fine playing instrument. The craftsmanship is quite good, they've added reinforcement to spots that were vulnerable to damage on the old Besson. It is an obvious clone of the York or new Besson with a larger bell than my old Besson and a different plan of the tuning slide and branches. It has a much bigger, darker sound that seems to project well. As a pro tuba player I enjoy the multiple challenges of playing baritone in the brass band.

Sam, is yours like this one?:




Klaus

imperialbari wrote:Sam, is yours like this one?:




Klaus

Yes, mine looks identical except my horn is lacquered brass with a rose brass lead pipe and lots of nickel trim and outer tuning slides.

Thanks for the review on that Sam. I've been thinking about getting one of these for the few occasions that I play baritone in brass band. As soon as I get the pennies saved I think I will.

I forgot to say that on a properly executed 3-valve comp instrument, whether baritone or tuba, that since the comp loops bring the 2+3 and 1+3 into tune, the preferred fingering for (brass band transposed treble clef notation) bottom line e and second space a is actually 3rd valve alone, and 1+2 is used as an alternate, or on something like 3rd space c#, which belonging to the 5th partial series can be slightly flat otherwise.

There are a few things I want to add about the Schiller baritone that I mentioned in the earlier post:

For the way I play the first valve loop was a bit long. I took about 3/4" off both sides to bring it up to pitch. I've found this to be a common problem for me on the 3-valve Besson euphs and baritones too.

The valves weren't fitted too well, but work fine now after doing a bit of lapping on them.

The valve guide slots were a bit rough which I smoothed out easily with some light filing.

The threads on the top caps aren't cut too well and can be a bit problematic to get screwed back on especially if you're in a hurry.

Some of these things may be just a factor on my particular horn, but if you buy one you may want to take it to a good repair tech. to have it tweaked up a little.

further to my comments, I played baritone in my band a few years ago, due to personnel changes and no seat on the tuba section, I have to say that i did not really enjoy playing it, but developed a respect for payers who can make it sound lovely. You rarely ever hear the baritone in the brass band, usually because it is easily overpowered by euphoniums or trombones, but when it is not there, its abscence is significant.
One problem I do notice with players though, is that they kind of "hunch down" into the instrument rather than bring the instrument up to their face, I do think that this affects the sound and projection within the ensemble.

The besson 955 (or york 3055 which is pretty much identical) is a standard. If you look at all the videos of Black Dyke and Fodens and Grimethorpe, that's what most of them have historically played.

The fourth valve is helpful for me from a technique perspective because I'm used to playing a 3+1 euphonium. I'm a lot faster with it than I am with the 1+3 combinations! That said, some of the newer brass band and solo literature for baritone does actually require the fourth valve.

I've tried a 956 and was lent a york 3056 for a few months and neither impressed me very much. It's definitely a bodged together design. The position of the fourth valve is weird, the tuning slide for the fourth valve is bizarre and problematic, and there are some weird intonation tendancies. The compensating loops aren't long enough.

After trying a 2056 prestige at last year's army band conference I immediately ordered one, even though I really didn't have the $5500 to spend on it. I just fell in love. It is SOOO much better than the 956 was or the 3056 is. The build quality of this instrument is phenomenal. Excellent valves. Even better, is that they worked out all the intonation problems and the response and timbre of the instrument are just perfect. The odd 4th valve tuning slide's been fixed. It's a little annoying that the compensating loops kind of get in the way of putting your right thumb on the side of the valve casing (I now put my thumb under the 1st valve compensating loop), and the 4th valve placement for me is still a little uncomfortable, although not as bad as the old one was, but these problems aren't too bad to deal with considering everything else about the instrument is just dreamy!

I should mention that the 3rd valve compensating loop on the 2056 STILL isn't quite long enough, but it is much better than the 956 was and it is close enough that you can get the notes in tune without too much effort.