TubeNet

Hey Tubenet,
Just curious if anyone has any facial issues and how to go about dealing with them. Specifically, more information on TMJ (temporo mandibular joint) and other face pain issues as they relate to brass playing.

I have had some recent trouble with jaw tension while playing along with shoulder and neck pain. My wife has been diagnosed with TMJ and has some extreme pain, with or with out playing (trombone). We are both looking for any helpful websites, or specific people to contact to find out more about this disorder/disease, how to treat it, and how to be a musician through the pain and tension.

Thanks in advance for any help with this subject.

(we both have private teachers and have had help with our tension issues, we know about the Alexander method and other things like it, we're looking for more professional/expert advice specifically regarding TMJ and brass playing, just to squash the inevitable "ask your teacher" type replies before they happen)

Tensions always are signs of a wrong technique. But telling what is wrong over the web is impossible and irresponsible. If you have asked your teachers and have found no solutions that way, then you obviously have only one option. Whether it is applicable in your local environment, is beyond me.

Klaus

I have found this book to be helpful in understanding and alleviating tension and pain. I think the google books link takes you through the head and neck section.

The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook http://books.google.ca/books?id=IYqqY5A ... se&f=false

Bob

Thank you to both Klaus and Bob for your quick replies. My tension is caused by improper technique (mainly too much mouthpiece pressure) and not stretching enough before playing. Life has caused stress and/or lack of sleep causing my tension. I should reiterate though that these are not what answers I was looking for. I might edit my first post, as the focus should actually be on my wife's pain.

My reason for posting is more to find someone to mentor my wife through the pain she is dealing with as a musician. While I appreciate the replies, what I'm looking for is more specifically a low brass player, preferably a trombonist with somewhat of a performing job, that experienced or is currently experiencing jaw pain and how to deal with it. The TMJD is actually what it is called or TMD. Anyone with any 1st hand experience or know anyone who did?

(once again, thank you both for your replies, i don't want to seem ungrateful but that's not what I was looking for, sorry for not being specific enough)

Let me be more clear also:

If your wife’s teacher cannot help your wife away from playing related pains, then he is not the right teacher for her. All teachers should be versatile, but all have their personal focus areas. Finding one with the right focus is part of the solution.

I don’t have problems with facial tensions, but due to sore joints I need to be aware of how I hold instruments. Trombones can be very problematic in that area, and I have changed the handgrip area of especially one of my bassbones. Factors to be considered are

valve/no valve
balancer/no balancer
distance between main slide branches
bell diameter
angle between bell and slide section (rotation at the bell receiver/ bell lock)
ring for left index King style
padding of stays

It is well known from WW pedagogy, that hand tensions will lead to tensions in the breathing apparatus of which the jaw angle is a main determinator.

Klaus

I find that if I don't tilt my head backwards while playing, I subconsciously jut my jaw forward (so that there is equal pressure on both bottom and top lip i suppose) and get sore after playing. So if you experience this, just tilt your head back so that the jaw can be relaxed. I hope that your pains can be alleviated so you can have a more enjoyable playing experience.

Thanks for all the replies so far. We will definitely contact Jan Kagarice. Just what I was looking for.

Any one know of anyone else?

(I have the feeling that talking about TMJD is a little like discussing focal dystonia, it's potentially career damaging so we don't discuss it)

I had a bout with TMJ about 10 years ago.
I don't believe that it is always related to playing.
My problem stemmed from grinding my teeth at night.
It was some of the most severe pain that I have ever had.
It was even difficult to eat, nevermind playing!
I was referred to an alternative therapy administered by a chiropractor called cranial release or manipulation. It was a very mild therapy having to do with manipulating the plates in the cranium. I went about four or five times and the problem disappeared as suddenly as it appeared. To this day, I have had no other manifestation of the problem.

Now, to say that someone's teacher is not the right teacher for them when it is unclear to all parties what is the cause of the condition,would be jumping to conclusions.

my two cents,
Frank Ortega

I have had some trouble in the past, I feel your pain. I have found this type of approach very helpful. I got them from a chiropractor/physical therapist. There are 9 different exercises that he gave me. I had trouble mostly on the right side. These helped balance my jaw and remove the pain. attention to good technique is the other half of the equation. I got better results when I did the exercises before practice, it helped me tune into my jaw more during practice. Along with isometric there is also stretching or gliding type movements. The whole thing takes about 25 minutes. My pain subsided after about 3 days of doing these. I hope this was helpful.

Steverino.

Once again, thanks for your replies. If anyone else has any suggestions we're still open for them.

This original thread is 14 years old...and, boy, am I glad it's still here! I've been playing for 30+ years, and I began experiencing issues with TMJ around the same time as the OP. I got a bite-guard, too, for clenching, and it seemed to help for a very long time. I used it for about a year, the symptoms went away, and I haven't any trouble...until about a year ago. I used the bite-guard again, but it didn't seem to have as much effectiveness this time. I want to say "Thanks, Steverino!" for the exercises! THIS is exactly what I needed. I discovered your post about a week ago, and my jaw discomfort and locking have stopped. Rest assured, this will be a regular part of my practice now.

Brian Holtin
Freelance performer, Private Instructor, Clinician
Orlando, FL

windmill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:13 pm I have had some trouble in the past, I feel your pain. I have found this type of approach very helpful. I got them from a chiropractor/physical therapist. There are 9 different exercises that he gave me. I had trouble mostly on the right side. These helped balance my jaw and remove the pain. attention to good technique is the other half of the equation. I got better results when I did the exercises before practice, it helped me tune into my jaw more during practice. Along with isometric there is also stretching or gliding type movements. The whole thing takes about 25 minutes. My pain subsided after about 3 days of doing these. I hope this was helpful.

Steverino.