TubeNet

With two tubas & two euphs I'm having storage issues in my house. I could solve all problems by storing my horns in their factory cases standing on their bell end. I know music stores do this to make space, and of course we all do it when setting the horn down during playing breaks. But I've heard that eventually damage/distortion can occur to the bell if a horn is left stored for long periods this way, even in it's regular case. The Yamaha, Besson and B&H horns have lugs on the bell end of their cases implying bell end standing is OK. The KING euph doesn't, suggesting to me that the factory does'nt want the instrument standing in it's case bell end down. Any advice please?

euphomate wrote:With two tubas & two euphs I'm having storage issues in my house. I could solve all problems by storing my horns in their factory cases standing on their bell end. I know music stores do this to make space, and of course we all do it when setting the horn down during playing breaks. But I've heard that eventually damage/distortion can occur to the bell if a horn is left stored for long periods this way, even in it's regular case. The Yamaha, Besson and B&H horns have lugs on the bell end of their cases implying bell end standing is OK. The KING euph doesn't, suggesting to me that the factory does'nt want the instrument standing in it's case bell end down. Any advice please?

Personally, I NEVER place my horn bell down outside of its case.

But then, I *rarely* let my horn out of my hands when it's outside of its case.

I've seen the extreme of what can happen. I paid good money for my horns. I don't want *that* to happen to me.

I *make* space - my wife hates it ...

I personally do not like the idea of standing tubas or euphs on the bell in or out of the case. The two main reasons are;
1. any condensation will be running back through the horn increasing the buildup of deposits through the valve and leadpipe sections.
2. the risk of damage which can be caused should it take a tumble - either in or out of the case.

Some of the thinner- softer bells will distort if the instrument is not put down very carefully and when out of the case the rim is likely to wear thin.

Where and how you place your horn during breaks should be given some careful consideration - especially when other people are around. "Accidents" do happen!!!!!!!!

If Dave Fedderly does it, I'll do it too...

bloke wrote:The cause and effect are misplaced; Tubas set on their bells are not damaged by carefully setting them on their bells. Rather, they are damaged when tubas set-on-their-bells are stepped on, bumped, or knocked over.

But the thought I think is that the horn is off balance rather than the thing of gravity pulling the bell itself down.

The problem of standing your horn bell down, or leaving it in a non-playing stand for that matter, is that unless you are right there (and, to a lesser extent, even if you are) the opportunity exists for it to get knocked over. Many, many of us have been through that heartache.
But I do understand that you're asking about standing the horns up in the hard case, at home. This has been my practice for many years and I've never had a problem with it.

I have my tubas resting in stands, bell up. Also brought these stands while I still performed publicly. Rotating tubas is were tough on sore wrists.

Klaus

I too think if you are concerned about damage, then the issue here is standing on bell on stage, or in the rehearsal room - rather than in case on bell for storage.

If you want to minimise risk of damage, then you would be wise to buy a non-playing stand. My experience is that tubas are much safer that way when being rested on stage, or in practice room and get a lot fewer dents.

While my experience storing on bell in case is just that for some tubas water will run out of leadpipe onto bell making it dirty - apart from that no problems at all.

Chriss2760 wrote:But I do understand that you're asking about standing the horns up in the hard case, at home. This has been my practice for many years and I've never had a problem with it.

This is exactly the question asked. Possible distortion to the bell shape due to storing the horn (in hard case) on it's bell, rather than placing it handle up, ie in the "picking up" position, when not being used. The former takes up less space in my practice room. I've heard it said that over time, the weight of the horn itself can be too much for the bell if stored bell down, even in a case. Although I didn't say as much, I actually use a K & M non-playing stand for my horns when they are out of their cases.

euphomate wrote: I've heard it said that over time, the weight of the horn itself can be too much for the bell if stored bell down, even in a case.

An urban myth?

..which has not made it to the UK, as on the bell is how most tubas are stored here

You may notice the wooden braces on one side of each bell in this photo. Seems designed to at least reduce the risk of the horns being knocked over.

Uncle Buck wrote:

bort wrote:If Dave Fedderly does it, I'll do it too...

You may notice the wooden braces on one side of each bell in this photo. Seems designed to at least reduce the risk of the horns being knocked over.

Yup. I've been there many times, and they are a smart little invention. But the OP was about the weight of the horn resting on the bell, to which those stands add no help.

bort wrote:If Dave Fedderly does it, I'll do it too...

anyone else thinking "domino run" ?

Back to the original question (anyone remember that?).

In most of my cases, if the case is standing on its bell end, then the bell is touching....air. There is zero
pressure on the bell, no matter how you orient the case. The weight is borne by the large branches, not the bell.
So, if the case is standing on the bell end, the weight of the tuba is carried by the outside of the top bow and the
inside of the bottom bow. The throat of the bell carries some weight in every *other* orientation, but when the case is on the bell end, the throat of the bell is being pulled by gravity AWAY from the inside surface of the case. And, of course, the bell proper is surrounded by a nice thick layer of AIR.

Your milage may vary. I am always shocked to see very expensive shipping cases that have the bell edges in direct contact with the sidewalls of the case. Oh, sure, there is a veneer of (compressed) foam there - but still.

Bloke's comment about old window glass showing signs of viscous flow has been shown to be another urban legend, but his point is valid: brass below its melting point is a solid, not a liquid. A tuba standing on its bell will not gradually collapse. The flattened bells that we see on student instruments are the result of hastily smacking them down onto the floor, not cold flow in storage. The simplest way to avoid that smackdown damage is to stock schools with recording-bell tubas.

bloke wrote:What about earthquakes, floods, fires, tornadoes, riots, or thieves?

Shouldn't we construct some sorts of vaults for our tubas?

This is a great idea bloke! Would it be OK to put our tubas bell down in a vault like this?

I used to think that standing a piston horn on the bell could cause problems with crud running back onto the pistons from the bottom caps.

I don't worry about it now. I just keep my horns clean!

I have stored a Holton Eb in my shop forover 20 years with no distortion of the bell. I think the myth of pulling slides without depressing the valve was started by band directors who did not want to hear the "pop" all the time.

tubamirum wrote: I think the myth of pulling slides without depressing the valve was started by band directors who did not want to hear the "pop" all the time.

I think that has a lot to do with it. When I see my private students trying to balance therr horns while pushing down a valve with one hand and pulling a slide with another, I fear the greater potential for damage to the horn is from it being dropped, not from a little bit of air rushing through the valves. (These are middle school students mind you, not the most coordinated people in the first place.) Yes, the band director told them they had to do that or it would "blow out" the valve.

euphomate wrote:

bloke wrote:What about earthquakes, floods, fires, tornadoes, riots, or thieves?

Shouldn't we construct some sorts of vaults for our tubas?

This is a great idea bloke! Would it be OK to put out tubas bell down in a vault like this?

Only if this guy is your tuba instructor: