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I've been playing a Bb horn for 4 years now, and realized that if I ever want an orchestra job I'm going to have to switch to a C tuba.
1. how hard is it to switch? any problems besides new fingerings?
2. when should i make the switch? would college be an ideal time?
Thanks!

otismoe wrote:I've been playing a Bb horn for 4 years now, and realized that if I ever want an orchestra job I'm going to have to switch to a C tuba.

Not true. If you ever want an orchestral job you'll have to practice like crazy and get very lucky. Then you can enjoy your $8K or so a year "job." The key of your tuba has nothing to do with it.

You don't have to play a C tuba to play in an orchestra. There are some famous "we live in the US and play C tubas" players playing Bb now (perhaps not so applicable if you don't live in the US ).
Do you already have a nice Bb tuba? If so, I would recommend-
-learning to play your horn as well as you possibly can
-NOT getting into C/Bb discussions in person; like it or not some people will still judge you without hearing you

Assuming good progress on the above, start checking out bass tubas. Given that most Bb tubas are "more contrabassy" than most C tubas, it would be wise to be able to do both ends to the best of you/your horn's abilities- large groups, solos, quintets,.... You don't have to play F over Eb either, though I think that would give a better contrast to a large Bb tuba.
Having played Eb, C, and Bb "professionally" (as in, I got paid to do it!), I think Bb tends to be better for large groups where you are in a dedicated contrabass role (concert band, big horn orchestral, large brass choir,....), and bass tubas usually outshine C tubas in smaller groups and solos. If I were somehow able to afford a couple new horns and started trying to do moderately hard-core orchestral stuff, I would go for a large Bb and either a 4/4 F or a biggish Eb and a euphonium. And a cimbasso, and a contrabass trombone, and a bass trumpet,.... Really, just one of the first 2 would probably good enough for most tuba players though if you want to free-lance a bass trombone is an excellent idea.


Bob"trying to decide this weekend on whether or not to go the path of hardcore cylindrical madness"Kolada

I'm not qualified to address whether it is absolutely a requirement to play a CC instrument in order to audition for professional orchestras, but regardless, if one is going to be a tuba player, the more instruments you can play, the better. As far as how hard it is, you can find that out for yourself. I'm assuming that you don't have a CC instrument, so take your BBb horn and play every note on any piece of music down one whole tone. EG, if the note is an Ab, use the fingering for Gb (2-3). There- you've just played a piece of music with CC tuba fingering. (You've also transposed down a step since you're playing a BBb horn, but if you were playing a CC horn, the notes would be at the proper pitch with the fingerings you used.) CC fingerings are not so much different than BBb as they are "displaced" (by one tone). If you can learn to do that without having to think too much about it, then you've learned CC tuba fingerings. We won't worry about stuff like the 5th valve for now.

As far as when to start, tomorrow would seem like a good time.

Hope this helps , and good luck!

Might be easier to play CC than have to bother explaining BBb to people.

" if one is going to be a tuba player, the more instruments you can play, the better"

Then again........The better you can play any one, the easier it will be to take up another. IMO it is FAR more important to develop good musical skills than get lost trying to figure out a heap of different instruments and getting so tied down that you never get anywhere on any of them.

Practice and study until you can do everything on 1 and really develop the aural skills and ensemble skills before worrying about spending piles of$$$$ on other instruments which might never earn you a cent because either you didn't develop enough as a player or you just don't get the job (and they are scarce) for whatever reason.

otismoe wrote:I've been playing a Bb horn for 4 years now, and realized that if I ever want an orchestra job I'm going to have to switch to a C tuba.
1. how hard is it to switch? any problems besides new fingerings?
2. when should i make the switch? would college be an ideal time?
Thanks!

If you decide to switch to a CC tuba, I hope you will seriously consider getting a quality Chinese tuba at low cost. Just one example would be the JZ five valve CC tubas which Dave Fedderly at Baltimore Brass is selling for $2090. Dave wouldn't sell them if they weren't decent tubas.

thanks everyone- i will master my Bb horn before i take any huge steps i just thought most players in major orchestras played C tubas. and i started to attempted the V. Williams concerto..that might be easier on F or C..

otismoe wrote:i started to attempted the V. Williams concerto..that might be easier on F or C

I played this on Bb in high school...it's certainly playable. Don't let the perception of what the horn can do influence you!

In my case I'm recently doing the switch from BBb to CC but I'm not doing it because I want to play in orchestras or whatever. I've played BBb for about 8 years now and I'm making the switch because I like the sound and feel of a CC over a BBb. A lot of people say its the same thing but to my ears I hear a difference in color. There ARE VERY GOOD BBb out there so if you want to stay on a BBb, its your choice. Don't let anyone tell you, you have to play CC to play in orchestral music. Good luck hope this helps

Most good professors and private teachers will not judge you on whether you play BBb or CC... but they will judge your investment in your art. Have you invested good time into practice and good money into a good horn? If you don't practice, or play a crappy BBb, that could hinder any motion forward to your aspirations. A good BBb is a gift from the gods. A lousy CC... well...

I always, annoyingly, plug Eb as a good all around instrument that works well for me. But there's nothing wrong with BBb at all. Find the instrument in whatever key that reaches you and speaks as your voice and then figure out what key it's in

J.c.S.

Just to add a few confusing facts to the current discussion:
Judging from the schedule of German tuba performance majors, the F-tuba DEFINITELY is a German tubist´s main axe. I´ve been told by such a student that the BBb is hardly touched in class at all.

Having played F,CC, and BBb in symphonic band, I can tell You I´m much happier with BBb now and took the trouble to relearn BBb fingerings, sell the CC and buy a new BBb in the process (I´m doing this for fun. There´s no money involved other than the dough spent on horns !!). I also got a smallish BBb to cover smaller musical settings where I figure the F offers too bright a sound.

Have fun

Hans

Most Orchetral literature lays better in my opinion on a BBb and EEb combination rather than CC and F. Berlioz is way easier on EEb Prokofiev and wagner are way easier valve combos on BBb same with Holst! Most of those awesome english recordings with patrick Harrild and Fletcher are recorded on EEb horns. Low Eb on a 4+5 combo makes that note which you will have to play multiple times as well as low F on 4th valve only again multiple times within an orchestral audition. they lay better on BBb! The big issue is ... do you have a 5/4-6/4 BBb and a 4/4-5/4 EEb or F. You would be just as well if not more appropriately served by using a 5/4-6/4 BBb tuba as your contrabass horn than a CC tuba IMHO. Miraphone, MM, and Willson all make a more than suitable BBb BAT horn for orchestral playing.

You want to play in an orchestra? Buy a CC.
You want to play in a brass band? Buy an Eb
You want a higher range? Buy an F

KiltieTuba wrote:

k001k47 wrote:You want to play in an orchestra? Buy a CC.
You want to play in a brass band? Buy an Eb
You want a higher range? Buy an F

Heh, what's the range have to do with buying a new instrument? Range has to do with how well you can play any instrument, i've learned to play up to the Bb above middle C. Furthermore, if one wants a lower range, shouldn't we all buy subcontrabass tubas? Or possibly all use double tubas...

Use an F tuba for tone, not for pitch.

bort wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:

k001k47 wrote:You want to play in an orchestra? Buy a CC.
You want to play in a brass band? Buy an Eb
You want a higher range? Buy an F

Heh, what's the range have to do with buying a new instrument? Range has to do with how well you can play any instrument, i've learned to play up to the Bb above middle C. Furthermore, if one wants a lower range, shouldn't we all buy subcontrabass tubas? Or possibly all use double tubas...

Use an F tuba for tone, not for pitch.

I do hope you guys didn't take that post seriously.

Not particularly. But I'm sure some people might.

Aside from feeling a tiny bit - say, 0.99%- nimbler, the only differences I see between BBb and CC are scale fingerings and tube length. That being said, the venue shouldn't dictate the horn you use, the song should.

UPDATE
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EDIT: I need to stop leaving words out.

You have been updated.

My suggestion is to master the instrument you have, but when opportunity arises, play-test every tuba that you can. This will give you valuable insight into the personality of various instruments.

By the way, if you practice enough, the hard work will pay off and it really won't matter what key your instrument is. When i go to rehearsals and gigs, people almost never ask me what key the instrument is. As long as it really sounds good, they don't care what key it is in. And, for most gigs of the past 13 years, my instrument has been a BBb.

Yeah but don't you own that holton 345? That isn't exactly the conn 5 j these poor guys are blowing on. . If only o saved more of my income instead of donating it to Toyota.