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LJV wrote:Can YOU read chord changes of any kind or genre and improvise a bass line?

yes.

LJV wrote:If so, who/what/where/when was your motivation?

Don't remember when, probably high school. Not sure who, probably Dr. Eli Newberger. As to why? I thought it would be fun. And it is! And sometimes people give me money for it.

LJV wrote:Is this an essential skill for tuba players?

For young players who want to make a living as a musician it is essential that they do all they can to to further their art. This includes (but is not limited to) playing by ear, reading changes, improvising, reading down an octave, and being comfortable with (not "switching to") various keys of tubas. It also wouldn't hurt to pick up bass guitar and bass trombone, as well.


edit: I see that you were not asking specifically for young tuba players who aspire to be professionals. For the folks out there just playing tuba for fun, I'd say the only essential thing is that they continue to have fun playing tuba, whatever style, level, key, etc... As improvising a bass line can be a lot fun, I would encourage everyone to try it.

For me, it's the alternative to playing the bass line strictly by ear. I struggle with it, or rather I should be struggling with it. When I can manage without reading, I play most of the chart much better, but there may be a few bars that aren't in my head. When I have to read, my `left hemisphere' takes over with predictable results, so dreadful that it may be better to play even a new tune just by ear.

So it doesn't sound like I can honestly say I read changes, but I have been known to do it notwithstanding. To the larger question of changes vs. a written bass line ... well, it should be obvious which is more fun?

Interesting thread... very poignant.

I see the tuba’s use in all kinds of music as a NEW thing, not an old one. I think it hurts us to get too wrapped up in history or mimicry.

I always work under the guise that the TUBA can play and fit into ANYTHING. The horn has no limits, it is THE most versatile wind instrument on the planet. I’ve never really felt that any style of music is more valid than the other; to me music is the same thing if I am playing orchestral or Euro-pop.

We are on the dawning of a new tuba age...albeit so far pretty much ignored by the academic side...
There are new surges of music that include tuba...brass bands, both Balkan and NoLa styles, plus trad (old timey swing) music is in the midst of a very trendy thingie at the minute not to mention the avant garde is always tuba-friendly.

Mainstream music is pretty much dead, but listening to music and finding new music is easier than ever. The door is open for new sounds.

...there is a sizable contingent of tuba players here in NYC alone that collectively do THOUSANDS of performances a year in *every* type of music imaginable... and this pales in comparison to *even more* tuba-centric scenes like New Orleans, where sousaphone rules the roost.


Playing bass lines on the tuba (to me, anyway) is about a couple things: 1.) portraying and projecting the overall feeling of the music. 2.) keeping the girls dancing.

****VERY IMPORTANT... if you get too caught up in #1 or anything else such as second guessing what you “should” be playing or the notes themselves, revert to reason #2.

A big part of bass line playing is consistent energy:
In orchestral playing, it’s a major work if you are playing 25% of the time. In brass chamber music (ie quintet), you play 70% of the time. In classical solo playing, you play 85% of the time. When playing bass on the tuba, you play 100% of the time, and will often play every single bar of music on every song on every set for three hours in a gig, sometimes multiple gigs in a day.
(I work in and dearly love each of those roles, I’m not knocking any of them... it’s this versatility that makes the tuba unique)

It’s not about what the music is, it’s about how the audience (or panel!) perceives it.
It’s not about the notes. I’m trying to do everything in my power to get the people on their feet and give everyone the most bang for their buck.

The biggest thing is to musically “live in the moment”. Think about it.

I can read chord changes. Improvising is a skill that I don't have, and haven't ever developed. I would like to have this skill; I sort of noodle around in a sort of Dixieland band, and I want to give them a solid bass line; if we ever played in public, I might have some motiviation. I play at bass guitar and upright bass (when I sneak into the HS band room) and have considered adding that to my menagerie of musical instruments. Tuba keeps me busy right now (well, in a couple of months it will...)

tubajoe wrote: We are on the dawning of a new tuba age..

..keeping the girls dancing...

The biggest thing is to musically “live in the moment”. Think about it.

three times 100% agree!

To the original question: I think it is far more easy to improvise anything, be it a bass line or a solo, if you understand what is going on harmonically and know your chords and scales. Ok, it is possible to play by ear only, but it needs much more time to develop.

Gerd

I am with TubaJoe on this.
The role of the tuba player in "alt.popular" music has been shifting a lot in the last few years and the swing is still upwards!

In my experience as a low-level semi-pro tuba operator, I do play specifically written & arranged tuba parts 30%, structured (Chords written but not "note specific") parts 50% (and I try to memorize all of those songs as quickly as possible,) and the rest are thrown together or spontaneous "head pieces." Most of my paid work in trad jazz is in the first two categories - the rest I tend to do for fun.

Knowing the basic rules of how a polka, trad jazz, blues, or early rock songs are structured helps a lot. I didn't have much formal music eduction, so most of what I have learned is from listening, playing with experienced musicians (and learning from my mistakes) and a bit of self motivated "book learnin'." I probably should go back to a Community College and get more serious music theory stuff down!


BTW, when thinking of the role of tuba/Bass players I was reminded of this.

LJV wrote:Can YOU read chord changes of any kind or genre and improvise a bass line (at any level of technical proficiency be it "Oom-Pah" or jazz walking bass)?

I can do these things extremely proficiently. I can also improvise proficiently, even (GASP!) on the tuba.

It's never made me any $$$ as a tuba player. Ever. That may be a regional reality to some degree, but not all of it (i.e. there may actually be NO work in Oklahoma improvising bass lines on tuba).

If I'm going to play music that involves improvising bass lines I'm going to use an electric or upright bass. 100% of the time for me that means a jazz combo or big band.

For me, piano continues to pay the bills, and almost exclusively accompanying others for their recitals in fulfillment of performance degrees so that they can also find out how little work there is and get a job renting cars, stocking shelves, selling insurance, or some other such thing.

Learn to play piano. Learn to read on it well. "Pollyannaism" be damned.

Coming from a highschool students perspective I think that learning how to read bass line changes has helped me immensely. When I first picked up the real book and started working with my teacher on reading changes 2 years ago I could play tuba and that was it. Then learning the trombone for supplemental jazz band playing, I found it easier when learning that instrument. Then this year picking up upright bass has been a breeze and being able to understand the music I was playing was very good. So coming from a kid who is just starting in the world of tuba and going on to college learning to read changes was a great skill for me to pick up in high school.

I think I learned how to read changes sometime in high school. It came in handy when I lived in Murfreesboro, TN and played tuba in a few blues bands (substituted for bass guitbox on occasion). It blew the patrons minds to hear bass lines coming out of the "oom-pah" instrument.

Trombone? I started playing trombone in sixth grade before tuba and continued on playing bass trombone in the high school jazz band. It's been a while since I've last played, but I don't think it would take much to get me back on the stick.

LJV wrote:Can YOU read chord changes of any kind or genre and improvise a bass line (at any level of technical proficiency be it "Oom-Pah" or jazz walking bass)?

Yes. I started out listening to other acts while on tour with a brass showband and following their chord progressions. As most of the other acts were guitar bands, I got much more exposure to D, A, E and B.

If not, is it in you plans...?

If so, who/what/where/when was your motivation?

Originally, I did it because it was there, free for the taking. Later, I got invited to replace the sousaphone player in a local Second Line/Trad Jazz band. As there was not a Jazz bone in my entire body, I was definitely over my head.

Most of the time, they called a tune, style and key - then off to the races. If I was "lucky", I got a "Fake Book" page. If I was *real* lucky, I got a CD.

Seven years later, in one incarnation or another, we're still playing. And I can play just about anything they want, given a tune, a style and a key - and enough rehearsals to come up with something that doesn't totally suck.

The rest of the guys are pretty cool about that though, because I DON'T suck, I'll try just about anything, I help them sound good, and every now and then, I can teach THEM a thing or two, too.

They showed me a wealth of NoLa, Cool Jazz, Trad Jazz, Funk, Soul, Blues, Bop, Ska, Hip Hop ... and it's still a *tiny* bit of what's out there.

Is this an essential skill for tuba players?

No. But, it's much more fun - and educational - if you can.

I can, to an extent.

If I am familiar with the tune and have the changes in front of me, sure.

In terms of what that can do for you, it's a big ol' musical world out there. Every city and town of any size has a guy with a guitar that plays Jimmy Buffett/Kenny Chesney/Johnny Cash/Elvis/Led Zepplin/The Doors/younametheband covers. If you broaden your horizons to include these kinds of songs, you can find guys with guitars that are happy to let you sit in and lay down a bass line. LA Woman with just a guitar/singer and a tuba is a really different sound, but it's a really cool sound with the right musicians. The same goes for stuff like Mustang Sally and La Bamba and a host of others.

I haven't been able to master the speed metal tuba yet, tho.