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Hey guys,

I got the Willson 2900 and a played through it today. It sounds great, but the pitch is through the roof. Just terrible. In order to play the F in the staff in tune, I've got to pull the main slide out almost all the way. It plays in tune with itself, but not with a tuner. I thought of a couple of factors, but I didn't think it would affect it that much. Here's my short list:

It was about 80 to 81 degrees where a practiced today.
Mouthpiece? I play a BB1 regularly, but because I don't have any Euro shank ones, I used the one that came with the horn. It says "51D", but isn't at all like a Schilke. The cup wasn't all that deep. The backbore is also thinned out. The rim might be a tad bigger than the BB1.

Any advice? Is it just because it's a different horn? 440 is still 440, though. If that's how the horn is, I'm not keeping it.

Thanks,

Christian

A equals 440hz at room temperature, which I believe is generally considered to be 72 degrees Fahrenheit . According to this article -> http://www.jstor.org/pss/737883" target="_blank, it's between 68 and 72 degrees F.

For brass instruments, pitch gets sharper when it's hotter. You're practicing in an environment where it's 10 degrees above room temperature. I would either (A) go practice inside or (B) set your tuner to A=445. Actually, I would recommend you try both. If it's still unacceptably sharp, send it back.

Also, you may be playing the horn on a mouthpiece smaller than you are accustomed to. The smaller mouthpiece will also cause you to play sharper. You should probably order or borrow a BB1 mouthpiece (a mouthpiece you are familiar with) that has a shank that fits.

I'm having a similar problem, only the other way around. It's always colder than typical room temperature in my basement, and one of my tubas isn't sharp enough to play to A=440 at 60something degrees.

I do practice inside. It's just that my room faces the sun for the majority of the day, so that whole air conditioning think doesn't really work, when we have it on at least. It's rarely at room temperature, especially during the spring and summer. Is there some kind of formula based on temperature that anyone knows (at temperature x below or above room temp, the pitch will be x hz higher/lower)?

I would like to find a BB1 or something similar, but I only have a limited amount of time before I have to make a decision on the horn (Tuesday). Does anybody know anyone who would sell at least some Euro shank mouthpieces in the Marietta or Atlanta area? In terms of length, the mouthpiece that came with the horn is only a fraction shorter than the BB1, so I'm pretty sure that's not it. I'm not sure about the other dimensions though.

Thanks,
Christian

CKH wrote:I do practice inside. It's just that my room faces the sun for the majority of the day, so that whole air conditioning think doesn't really work, when we have it on at least. It's rarely at room temperature, especially during the spring and summer. Is there some kind of formula based on temperature that anyone knows (at temperature x below or above room temp, the pitch will be x hz higher/lower)?

I would like to find a BB1 or something similar, but I only have a limited amount of time before I have to make a decision on the horn (Tuesday). Does anybody know anyone who would sell at least some Euro shank mouthpieces in the Marietta or Atlanta area? In terms of length, the mouthpiece that came with the horn is only a fraction shorter than the BB1, so I'm pretty sure that's not it. I'm not sure about the other dimensions though.

Thanks,
Christian

You can extrapolate a reasonable guess out of the article I linked, which was what I did by recommending A=445.

A=435 at 59 degrees F.
At normal room temperature, those same A=435 instruments play at A=440.
Normal room temperature is between 68 and 72 degrees F.
A=440 at between 68 and 72 degrees F (the middle of those two endpoints is 70 degrees).
Therefore, the difference of 5 hz is 11 degrees.
Therefore at 81 degrees (70 + 11) , A should be around 445.

You can google for 5 minutes and find a more elaborate formula.

Or, of course, you could look at the hour by hour weather for Marietta at http://www.weather.com" target="_blank. You'll find it will be around "room temperature" outside between 8 and 9 PM. Go practice outside with your tuner then.

Your Willson may have been built to play A=443. A friend of mine has a Willson 3050 CC. His played sharp. He communicated this to Willy Kurath at Willson. Willy sent him a longer main slide.

--Christian

Thank you again for the information.
I tested it in my basement, and in order for it to play in tune, the main slide was out an inch. Is this a lot for euphoniums? On my 642 I had to adjust a good bit less. It was 72 to 73 degrees. I still had to concentrate a lot on the pitch to make sure it didn't drift up. I contacted the Willson company to get the measurements on the slides.

As I said earler, does anyone know anybody who might have a good number (or any at all, for that matter) of Euro shank mouthpieces in stock in the Marietta/Antlanta area?

Christian

It sounds like you have the European main slide which will put the pitch quite high. Rather than adjusting to the horn, contact Willson and ask for the longer American slide. I'm sure they will be happy to help you.

All the best.

Roger

Roger Lewis wrote:It sounds like you have the European main slide which will put the pitch quite high. Rather than adjusting to the horn, contact Willson and ask for the longer American slide. I'm sure they will be happy to help you.

All the best.

Roger

I've got a question about that. Even if the slide was longer on the inside itself, wouldn't the tubing on the outside of the instrument have to be lengthened in order for it to have an impact? If the slide was (just throwing out a number here...) 3 inches long on the actual slide part and it was out the instrument by an inch, and then the actual slide was 4 inches long and was pulled out the one inch, the result would be the same, wouldn't it?

I took out the main slide and I put it up against the tubing. It's a little shorter than where the brace (right words here?) should be. That's how it is for most of the slides. Is this normal?

Christian

CKH wrote: I've got a question about that. Even if the slide was longer on the inside itself, wouldn't the tubing on the outside of the instrument have to be lengthened in order for it to have an impact? If the slide was (just throwing out a number here...) 3 inches long on the actual slide part and it was out the instrument by an inch, and then the actual slide was 4 inches long and was pulled out the one inch, the result would be the same, wouldn't it?

Only if the slide RECEIVER is 4" long to begin with.

If the slide RECEIVER is 3" and the slide LEGS are 4", the slide will STICK OUT 1" when it's pushed all the way in, so the horn will START OUT 2" longer (1" for each leg of the slide) than if the slide legs were 3" long AND you still have 3" of slide pull remaining instead of 2".

pgym wrote:
Only if the slide RECEIVER is 4" long to begin with.

If the slide RECEIVER is 3" and the slide LEGS are 4", the slide will STICK OUT 1" when it's pushed all the way in, so the horn will START OUT 2" longer (1" for each leg of the slide) than if the slide legs were 3" long AND you still have 3" of slide pull remaining instead of 2".

Is there a solid way of knowing which main tuning slide would be which (American or European)? Any measurements out there that anyone's aware of?

Christian

Hey Christian,
I got a Willson a few months ago. Had the same issue. F was really sharp. Think maybe A was really flat. I don't remember. You just have to get used to it. I've been playing on it for awhile and my intonation is pretty solid now.

CKH wrote:

Roger Lewis wrote:It sounds like you have the European main slide which will put the pitch quite high. Rather than adjusting to the horn, contact Willson and ask for the longer American slide. I'm sure they will be happy to help you.

All the best.

Roger

I've got a question about that. Even if the slide was longer on the inside itself, wouldn't the tubing on the outside of the instrument have to be lengthened in order for it to have an impact? If the slide was (just throwing out a number here...) 3 inches long on the actual slide part and it was out the instrument by an inch, and then the actual slide was 4 inches long and was pulled out the one inch, the result would be the same, wouldn't it?

I took out the main slide and I put it up against the tubing. It's a little shorter than where the brace (right words here?) should be. That's how it is for most of the slides. Is this normal?

Christian

Normally... a longer tuning has the same length inner 'legs'. The extra length is either in the crook or the ferrules between the legs and the crook. That's the way I build 'em, anyway. There are times when the body of a given horn doesn't have enough clearance for a longer slide. That's when it gets to be fun!