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Hi Folks,

I keep thinking about selling my Holton 4 valve 345 CC (factory) and getting a King 2341 (new style) since CC fingerings are a pain in the neck.

Would someone like to weigh? Will I regret doing it- will the new horn be much worse? (I really love the way this horn plays...) I know I have a great horn, but I am a doubler and am never really going to play CC...


Thanks for any advice!

weigh in.

Trade it for a 345 Bb!

I'm curious to know why CC fingerings are tough. Could you elaborate on that? If you love the way the horn plays, I don't see why you would want to sell it just for another tuba.

daveinem wrote:will the new horn be much worse? (I really love the way this horn plays...) I know I have a great horn

If you love the 345 then to are bound to regret as the King would be a much smaller tuba and give you no where near the same sound.

If you just want BBb fingerings, then an exchange for a BBb 345 as Bob suggests would seem the best option

That sounds like a good option. Where do I find one of those?

Re: the fingerings. I am approaching 50, and I don't seem to learn as fast as I ought to. Eb fingerings were not that bad for some reason, but C is causing me stress...

I have no idea where to find one!

Have you tried a Miraphone 1291 Bb? 2341's are nice but that would be awful close to your Besson Eb. 1291 Bb's rock!

How long have you had it, and how often do you play it? You've got a lot of horns, it seems, and if you don't spend enough face-time with it, that makes it harder.

BUT, it's totally possible that it's just not for you. Perfectly reasonable.

A factory 345 CC could fetch a pretty penny, depending on condition. Seems like you'd have enough cash for some good BBb BAT options.

I sent you a PM. If you are interested selling the Holton, definitely contact me. You mentioned being a doubler, what is your main instrument (bone or euph?)

As far as fingerings, lots of people can pick them up in a couple of weeks if they "just do it."
There are a lot of reasons to sell a horn, fingerings shouldn't be one of the main ones.

I myself am 48 y.o. I started playing cc only 9 months ago (back when I was the tender age of 47). I'm a doubler on upright bass. Learning cc fingerings was difficult but I'm "over the hump". The thing is, I need to keep practicing to stay agile with the transposition. Even without c fingerings I would need to keep practicing with BBb anyway to keep up the consistency of sound...hmm, I guess I just need to keep practicing.

Learning a new transposition has helped me tremendously with musicianship all around. I'd say give it some more time and try to commit regular time to it. Scales, Tyrell, Kopprash, arpegios, record yourself. Try to solo on "Saints.." without music but pretend you are playing BBb. You might be surprised.

Stephen.

You didn't mention what kind of groups you are using the 345 in, but since you are a doubler I assume you are not trying to support a 90 piece orchestra. A smaller more agile BBb instrument perhaps would not only assist your fingering, but also work better in the groups you play in. The 345 (regardless of key) I would think is an instrument requiring more breath support and is a bigger leap for a trombone player than a smaller instrument like the 2341. Another instrument to consider is the new BBb Kanstul which is patterned on a York 33 and has a sound that is very nice. A lot of doublers also play the Miraphone 184 BBb, the OLDS 99, the Yamaha 621 BBb, the Yamaha 103 (only 3 valves) or the Joseph Lidl BBb. These are all more in the area of 3/4 sized tubas except the OLDS which is more like 7/8. They pack a surprising amount of sound and are a heck of a lot easier to lug around then a 345.

Your 345 would fetch a nice price and leave cash in your pocket most likely with most of the above choices.
At this point you sound like you have tried to make the 345 work and it just hasn't worked for you. I think you may once in a while miss that breadth of sound of the 345, but will more often find yourself pleased that you got something in a smaller BBb that actually works for you doing what you need it to do.

daveinem wrote:That sounds like a good option. Where do I find one of those?

Here's one:



http://tubameister.com/4sale.htm

Mike Finn wrote: http://tubameister.com/4sale.htm

Amazing that almost new condition 345 has not been snapped up! If I was looking for a 6/4 BBb, this would be top of the list to check out

On learning CC - I am around 50, and used to only play Eb, but in the last 5 years have learnt CC, F and BBb fingerings, using each in concert within 3 months. Learning a new key of tuba is not that difficult and nothing to fear!

Don't let your frustration with C tuba fingerings affect your idea of the value of your Holton CC. These are sought after instruments and a straight trade would only be equitable in rare circumstances.

Especially in this economy, patience will be rewarded.

Thanks, guys!

I may just bite the bullet and learn the proper fingerings after all. That BBb of Mike's is making me drool though.

daveinem wrote:Thanks, guys!

I may just bite the bullet and learn the proper fingerings after all. That BBb of Mike's is making me drool though.

That tuba is actually at Lee Stofer's shop, http://www.tubameister.com
I can't speak for Lee, but maybe he could work out some kind of a trade, that would be up to him how he wanted to handle that.
If I was a BBb guy, AND I had the bucks, I would be all over that horn.

Still another option - You might consider having a fifth valve added (a full step, preferably with a long slide pull available) which would give you an even more marketable horn when you have finished playing. (The day will come as we can not stop gettiing older.) You could then have it "locked"into position to make the horn a BBb. Those old Holton 5v instruments were not at all bad as BBb that way with slides pulled to compensate. Yes, it would cost a bit but, it might mean less outlay than trading - depending on what you went for and the condition of your instrument. There are several top class techs here who could do the mod for you and discuss the various options.

Even the CSO/Jake York #2 spent part of its life as a 4 valve job - though originally a 5.

How do you feel about rotors? If you want a large BBb and can't get an equivalent Holton, several companies make large rotary BBb's: Willson; M-W "Fafner"; the new B&S GR55; Rudy Meinl makes a couple, including the "Bayreuth"; Miraphone 190.

On the same idea of the Holton would be an old Martin if you could find one.

Finally, a little bit lighter but advertised as having just as big a sound: the new Kanstul BBb models w/ 19 inch "York" bells.