TubeNet

And I REALLY want to hear Bloke's opinion...

Is there a chance in HELL that Finale could get $600 a copy for their program if they weren't getting orders subsidized by the US taxpayer? I mean, c'mon! $600 dollars a copy? It MIGHT be worth $50. If it weren't for government organizations: high school bands, college bands, etc. Finale would be out of business! But they are gouging the gubmint titty like crazy! MuseScore is GIVING away the same process for free. Granted, it isn't as user-friendly or intuitive as Finale, but it's FREE!!! And it works! What's the deal there, Finale??

I don't know if they still offer it, but I got my finale copy for $300 as a student. You get an "academic" discount if you work in that situation.

It's all economics and people being willing to pay for it.



And honestly, I think price is appropriate. It's a very advanced, excellent program, ESPECIALLY when you KNOW how to use it. I have seen open source and other "cheaper" programs, and they just can't do what Finale (or Sibelius) can do.

You admit this yourself:

Granted, it isn't as user-friendly or intuitive as Finale

This is why it is not free. For many amateurs, Finale notepad or other free software's suffice, but if you are like me and create professional quality scores with many, many instruments staves, you simply cannot use any other software.

IMHO

(edit: In ONE tiny commission finale paid itself back. That's a much better return than almost any of us tuba players get out of our tuba's!)

At the time it was introduced Finale was so advanced that the man who coded it, Phil Farrand, was questioned by men in black. Just a story I heard.

PHil Farrand is a very interesting guy: he is the author of "The Nitpicker's Guide for Next Generation Trekkers" and other books of non-fiction, mostly. An MK, he served as music minister in his church. I do not believe he is still associated with Finale. I do not know him personally but back to the topic, yes it is expensive. I hate the constant 'updates' too. Still, the program works for many people.

The price is stiff but so is Photoshop and other powerful programs (way beyond 'robust') but I can understand the frustration about their price. Knock-off programs can do the job and if they work for you then you should learn them to use them. Here is Finale on sale for $219, student, school or church price.
http://www.computermusicshop.com/Finale ... 2god-BJYMA

pierso20 wrote:I don't know if they still offer it, but I got my finale copy for $300 as a student. You get an "academic" discount if you work in that situation.

I kept my student ID just in case the academic price is WAY lower than the full price. No one has challenged myself if I showed a copy/faxed of my ID.

Charles Atkins

I spend 30 years in machine design and came along with the development of the modern CADD systems. I used to feel the same way about the high prices of AutoCad, Idea, CadKey, and the others but learned to realize that GREAT tools cost a lot of money simply because they are of great value to professionals.

No... I don't have the full-blown Finale program but I use their 'PrintMusic'... with has the same scanning capabilities. It can be found for about $100. Then... if you are serious about buying the whole package later... you will be able to upgrade for substantially less than $600.

Wouldn't Hal Leonard, Alfred, Hickey's, JW Pepper, etc., etc., etc., go out of business of schools stopped buying products they sell in their stores?

Look around and you can get the product for much less. You can probably buy Sibelius for a couple hundred somewhere and then call MakeMusic and ask for the competitive upgrade for a couple hundred and you will have both programs for less than their $600 retail price tag.

Warning a rant:

I regards to FInale directly, I use it every day and I love it. BUT (AND A MASSIVE BUT), MakeMusic is running their product into the ground with their lack development and how they ignore their current customer base. They have been the big cat for a while, but Sibelius has caught and passed them by in recent years without MakeMusic even lifting a finger to try and stop them. My theory is MakeMusic can't develop their product anymore because of old code and therefore have given up the fight and rolled all their eggs into the SmartMusic basket. A good thing in the short term, but if gvt. funding falls through and music programs are eliminated who will be using SmartMusic?

For me personally, Finale creates better (more professional) output but I recommend Sibelius to any first time notation user who will listen. There is no comparison in ease of use, quick output and just the overall out-of-box usefulness.


end of rant...

Torrents, gentlemen.

That is all.

Kory

Hey! Believe it or not, there are a lot of School districts where I live whose teats dried up long ago! There are hundred's of such tiny districts in rural ares all across the country! The director at my kid's school is THE man for that district,750 kids, K-12!He gets less than 2K a year for everything! Having said that, I believe(no, I am NOT a Republican OR Democrat) that the market will eventually overcome any artificial propping up of prices by school sales! The designer should be entitled to make his money for his inspired work while he can, and while 600 bucks sounds expensive, that should be deductible, at least in part, for professionals! Didn't I hear students were offered a 50% break? I am considering the purchase of such software soon, and would love to hear from people using any of that type program currently! Thanks, Al.

BVD Press wrote:For me personally, Finale creates better (more professional) output but I recommend Sibelius to any first time notation user who will listen. There is no comparison in ease of use, quick output and just the overall out-of-box usefulness.

For years, I used the excuse for not writing more music that "it's so tedious to write out the scores and parts." So for my birthday in 1997, my wife bought me--Finale.

But by then, my musical priorities had changed. Tuba playing had become a much more serious part of my life. I needed more hours in each day for practicing the horn. The end result is...I never even opened the tutorials on Finale.

With its upgrades since then, undoubtedly Finale can do much more and, I would suspect (experts can support or refute), the learning curve has significantly improved over the 1997 version.

The merely occasional muse and the lack of commissions are making access to and facility at a notation software program a non-necessity at this point. So since it is secondary in priority over practicing and other life activities/responsibilities, should I still get the latest Finale update and buckle down to learn it, or should I invest in a cheaper, easier to use notation software program?

BVD Press wrote:I recommend Sibelius to any first time notation user who will listen. There is no comparison in ease of use, quick output and just the overall out-of-box usefulness.

These are the words of a smart man who makes his living using these programs. LISTEN TO HIM!

Steve Marcus wrote:I needed more hours in each day for practicing the horn.

I think Steve and I flip flopped here: I walk by my horn everyday to engrave music for my own companies and others.

Steve Marcus wrote:.... should I still get the latest Finale update and buckle down to learn it, or should I invest in a cheaper, easier to use notation software program?

I think you would ultimately be more satisfied with Finale. It's a good idea to get someone to show you how to use it.

The instruction manual is tedious. I followed the manual for several weeks and was still unalble to actually do anything until a friend made a few sugestions. That's what put me on the fast track.

Alex C wrote:

Steve Marcus wrote:.... should I still get the latest Finale update and buckle down to learn it, or should I invest in a cheaper, easier to use notation software program?

I think you would ultimately be more satisfied with Finale. It's a good idea to get someone to show you how to use it.

The instruction manual is tedious. I followed the manual for several weeks and was still unalble to actually do anything until a friend made a few sugestions. That's what put me on the fast track.

I tend to agree with this. In the end, you are trying to produce a product that looks professional and beautiful and I absolutely prefer the look of and feel of the Finale product than others. Yes, the learning curve is STEEP. It takes a while and can be very frustrating. However, once you know how to do processes, a score can be edited EXTREMELY quickly and produce a high quality product. Practice is the only way to get good at Finale. If you are an amateur user, then it is not the way for you. If you plan on using it to produce a saleable product, then it is extremely worth the investment. Visit the forums and use help often.

Steve Marcus wrote:The merely occasional muse and the lack of commissions are making access to and facility at a notation software program a non-necessity at this point. So since it is secondary in priority over practicing and other life activities/responsibilities, should I still get the latest Finale update and buckle down to learn it, or should I invest in a cheaper, easier to use notation software program?

Not only does Finale require a tremendous investment of time and effort to learn, it requires commensurate time and effort to maintain proficiency.

Pace Alex C and piers020, given your stated priorities and projected notational activities, you will likely be adequately served by a cheaper, easier to use program, many of which provide 80-90% of Finale's capabilities for a fraction of the monetary cost and expenditure of time and effort.

For anyone using or thinking about using Finale, please ask any questions about the product. I can't guarantee I will have the answers, but I will do my best. A Forum post, a PM, email or even a phone call will work.

One thing to remember about any notation program is that you can compare it your playing: it did not happen overnight or without effort.

From somewhere in Idaho where I will checking in at 11pm only to work with Finale for an hour so,

pgym wrote:

Steve Marcus wrote:The merely occasional muse and the lack of commissions are making access to and facility at a notation software program a non-necessity at this point. So since it is secondary in priority over practicing and other life activities/responsibilities, should I still get the latest Finale update and buckle down to learn it, or should I invest in a cheaper, easier to use notation software program?

Not only does Finale require a tremendous investment of time and effort to learn, it requires commensurate time and effort to maintain proficiency.

Pace Alex C and piers020, given your stated priorities and projected notational activities, you will likely be adequately served by a cheaper, easier to use program, many of which provide 80-90% of Finale's capabilities for a fraction of the monetary cost and expenditure of time and effort.

I have made attempts to use the "cheaper" "easier to use programs"....they are not really easier to use. Especially when trying to create PROFESSIONAL appearing manuscripts. You also misjudge my "stated priorities" since I am an aspiring composer including commissions and highly visible public performances.

For an amateur? No, Finale is probably not the best investment. For a professional? It absolutely is.

Of course, what about cost? Look at many of the members of this forum owning instruments that NEVER pay for themselves. I have already earned back any costs associated with using Finale. AND as an experienced user, I can (with GREAT ease) produce excellent appearing product.

I still would suggest that anyone who takes composition "seriously" invest in Finale or Sibelius.

pierso20 wrote:You also misjudge my "stated priorities" since I am an aspiring composer including commissions and highly visible public performances.

To the contrary, because you fail to understand the meaning of pace,, it is YOU who misjudge; for had you understood the term, it would be clear that my remark refers to Steve's stated priorities, which he delineated in portion of his post quoted; they imply NOTHING about YOU or YOUR priorities and aspiration.

Lighten up, everyone didn't take Latin in HS, nor should they.

Torrents, gentlemen.

That is all.

Amen to that!

pgym wrote:

pierso20 wrote:You also misjudge my "stated priorities" since I am an aspiring composer including commissions and highly visible public performances.

To the contrary, because you fail to understand the meaning of pace,, it is YOU who misjudge; for had you understood the term, it would be clear that my remark refers to Steve's stated priorities, which he delineated in portion of his post quoted; they imply NOTHING about YOU or YOUR priorities and aspiration.

I still don't understand because you lumped your description and assumption in one statement that included both of us. And again, I would not be adequately served by another notation program...BELIEVE me...

Who uses latin in regular english!??? I thought the poster was referring to salsa...