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Hi can someone tell me more about king tubas? Not the newer ones but the older ones that William (Bill) Bell use to play. And is it still possible yo get one of those Kings? From pictures with Mr. Bell and his tuba it looks kind of small, did he really use that tuba in the NYP and the NBC orchestra? Thank you for any information anyone can give me on this topic.

TYA wrote:Hi can someone tell me more about king tubas? Not the newer ones but the older ones that William (Bill) Bell use to play. And is it still possible yo get one of those Kings? From pictures with Mr. Bell and his tuba it looks kind of small, did he really use that tuba in the NYP and the NBC orchestra? Thank you for any information anyone can give me on this topic.

You can get a wide variety of information about older King instruments here:

http://www.hnwhite.com" target="_blank

Also, the Tuba Exchange has a "Historic Collection" and they have a number of older King instruments displayed.

http://www.tubaexchange.com/historic_co ... /index.htm" target="_blank

King, as a division of Conn-Selmer, no longer makes the same types of horns as Mr. Bell used. Your source will be the used market so you will need to keep your eyes and ears open for a deal.

Also, to try to get you a little closer to what you might want, I did a Google search on "bill bell tuba" and looked through the list. There are links to books and different things to buy but also to webpages where Mr. Bell is discussed or described. You would do well by picking through the list for something appropriate.

Have fun!

I have been privilidged to play both Mr. Bell's and Mr. Novotny's King tubas. They were incredibly free blowing and efficient horns with outstanding playing charateristics in every category. Yes, Bell used them in both orchestras, along with a variety of other tubas. I understand these were his main instruments though.

These horns do not come up for public sale very often and would be as expensive as many new horns. I have not been a fan of the M-W copy but I think most would agree that Sam Palafian seems to have done all right with his.

Thank you for all of that information. Would anyone know if Mr. Bell's tuba was a CC orBBb? It seems Kimg did not make a lot of CC tubas. Thank you for all of your help.

The specific King tubas in question were all CC tubas.

How hard is it to find on of those Kings and is their a specific place I should look at to find them?

TYA wrote:How hard is it to find on of those Kings and is their a specific place I should look at to find them?

They haven't been made for decades. It's not like trying to get a 10-20 year old Hirsbrunner, Meinl Weston, etc. Here's the original advertisement for 1293. Love those prices!!!!

That you for that ad. And from what you said I'm guessing its pretty impossible to find one now day. But thank you.

There's some interestingstuff on a thread called :"your favoriteBAT" about the King rotarys. There were 17 C's of 689 bore but around 100 BBb's at a larger bore. I got one from Ebay last March and it's a killer.Kanstul makes terific upright bells for them as most were ordered with bell fronts. There are still some of the BBb's out there at colleges in store rooms (I won't name the schoolls to protect those who are already trying to free them) and Vince has at least two in his collection. Many who have played them told me that they weren't very good but as these horns were mostly built in the 30's there is alot of tweaking to be done on most of them.Mine had alot of issues but Tom Treece and I have waded through most of them and it sounded spectacular at Diseny's Candlelight Processional at Epcot last year.There are two hits on You Tube under Holiday Memories from Epcot where you can really tell that the sound is unique and exceptional. I also have a few of the piston valve Kings which are very good but pretty much all share the same valve set with the differences being in the bell, fixed or detachable, short or tall(we had short ones like the current 2341's at the West Point Band when I was there), 3 or 4 valves. Kings have made my mortgage payments fot the last 30 years so please forgive my prejudice towards them. They all definitely have their own sound which is different from a York or any German tuba, although these also sound great.One more stupid aside, I played the Guy Lombardo Orchestra several years ago and got fished into trying to play bass fiddle. I crashed and burned on Bass and upon later talking withthe booker he said he had driven Mooney to the airport and he talked about me the whole way. I apologized profusely about my lame bass playing and he replied,"He said you had the most beautiful tuba sound he could remember". King 3 valve fixed bell front.They ARE fine sounding horns. Ed

Back in the 1980's. I owned and played a King, .687" bore, 4 rotary valved CC tuba. I got it from Ivan Hammond at Bolling Green University in Ohio. This tuba was silver plated with a satin finish with a gold inner bell. This tuba came with a 22" upright bell. It had string-linked valves. It was EXTREMELY heavy. I used to tell people it was armor-plated. It had very difficult inotation. It was also quite stuffy in the low register. I eventually sold it to one of Don Harry's students at Juilliard.

I was enamoured by the King CC tuba from growing up listening to recordings of Mr. Torchinsky in the Philadelphia Orchestra. In the 1990's, I had the priviledge of studying, briefly, with Mr. Torchinsky and was able to pick his brain about the King tuba. He said that, in quality and consistency, they varied radically. He liked his the best. Otherwise, he thought that the others were not so good.

I have also heard from other Bill Bell students that, due to difficult intation, Mr. Bell's King could only be played by Mr. Bell. I now have an older Bill Bell Model Meinl Weston. I love the sound, but, I believe that Meinl Weston duplicated Mr. Bell's tuba so accurately that all of the intonation problems from the original seem to be built into the copy. However, once one learns to play the MW, the sound is quite worth the effort.

TYA wrote:That you for that ad. And from what you said I'm guessing its pretty impossible to find one now day. But thank you.

Oh, but if we could.... 4v, heavy gold plate, hand burnished all over, $750... "I'll take one, please..."

One never knows when it comes to horns. Keep your ear to the ground and one might show up. Read all the ads and look at your local Craigslist every once and awhile...I have an automatic search set up on eBay that sends me a selection of ad listings once a week. Set one up for "King tuba" and have eBay send you the listings.

The Big Ben wrote:

TYA wrote:That you for that ad. And from what you said I'm guessing its pretty impossible to find one now day. But thank you.

Oh, but if we could.... 4v, heavy gold plate, hand burnished all over, $750... "I'll take one, please..."

One never knows when it comes to horns. Keep your ear to the ground and one might show up. Read all the ads and look at your local Craigslist every once and awhile...I have an automatic search set up on eBay that sends me a selection of ad listings once a week. Set one up for "King tuba" and have eBay send you the listings.

How would I setup that Ebay listing thing? Is it something I need to pay extra for? But thank you for that little advice I wont give up it just may take me a while or even never to get one but I want one so I wont give up on my search.

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Click on this link. It will take you to Me & My Tuba, and You & Yours . There you will see the elusive King Monster BBb tuba and its owner, and his comments on his tuba. It is an awesome sight.

TYA wrote: How would I setup that Ebay listing thing? Is it something I need to pay extra for? But thank you for that little advice I wont give up it just may take me a while or even never to get one but I want one so I wont give up on my search.

No, there is no extra charge. If you are a registered eBay user, look in the area called "My eBay". When you make a search, you have the option of saving the search. The "Saved Searches" are near the bottom of the 'My eBay' page.

hrender wrote:FWIW, the MW 37 "Bill Bell" model isn't that hard to find. Baltimore Brass has a used one and still lists the new one as available. It would be a lot faster than waiting for the elusive King Rotary to appear (and I've been watching for them, too).

I played the used MW Bill Bell Model at Baltimore Brass, recently. It is worthy of consideration. Baltimore Brass Company is a truly reputable dealer. I highly recommend them!

For me, the "Bill Bell" model, with its .687 bore, tends to get a little "grainy" in the lowest register. But I've heard others (not Bill Bell) sound great on them. And yes, the M-W version is very, very close, especially if you get an older detachable bell variant. I did not notice anything "difficult" about the intonation with the one I was closest to, which used to be owned by an elderly gentleman who played in band with me for a couple of years before he passed, and used an old-style Conn 2 on it.

iiipopes wrote:I did not notice anything "difficult" about the intonation with the one I was closest to, which used to be owned by an elderly gentleman who played in band with me for a couple of years before he passed, and used an old-style Conn 2 on it.

I have one of the older ones with the detachable bell and the more tightly bent main tuning slide. I know that my tuba is not necessarily representative of all other Bill Bell model MW's made. I do have to make many slide adjustments as I play. I pull the first valve slide to varying lengths for C#, D, E and F, just below the staff. Eb, one ledger line below the staff, must be played with the third valve slide pulled about 2 1/2" to bring it down to pitch. I set the third slide at that default position. I have designed a spring-loaded mechanism on the third valve slide (which is aceesible by the left hand, directly next to the first valve slide) that will return the third valve slide to its default position after it is pushed all of the way in to play Ab. 4th line F and top line A are also extremely sharp and must be adjusted by pulling the first valve slide.

I use a Bach 7 mouthpiece on my Bill Bell model. I find the low register quite nicely workable and resonant if you do not force air through the tuba.

My instructor from college days has one from 1940. It is moderate sized by today's standard. The interest in owning and collecting them is very keen. There are not many of them, either, so good luck!