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That is rather disappointing. I'm around that age, but my perspective is to never trust anything new. Things seem (like cars, for instance) to have dropped off in quality as years advance.

David "not anything goes" Neider

Tubas are quite durable, when cared for properly. Damages aside, how much would it really take to "wear out" a tuba to the point of not being able to repair it? Valves can be replated, finishes can be redone....I mean, if you never drop, dent, crinkle a bell, there's VERY little that would wear it out.

Who *wouldn't* want something that is made so dang well you only have to buy it once, ever? I should hope for a quarter of that time out of any car!

When I was telling my dad(65 year old, knows nothing about instruments/music) that the Cerveny Kaiser I'm about to buy was built in 1991, he reacted negatively. I had to convince him that age really doesn't apply to instruments...he related age to damage and playability. (by the way, I'm 20)

" They just don't make em like that anymore ..." , applies particularly well to sousaphones !!!

Mcordon1 wrote:When I was telling my dad(65 year old, knows nothing about instruments/music) that the Cerveny Kaiser I'm about to buy was built in 1991, he reacted negatively. I had to convince him that age really doesn't apply to instruments...he related age to damage and playability. (by the way, I'm 20)

I think the overall thought is that expensive = old, old = not good. Cars, houses, people... all change significantly with age, without fail until we all wear out to our end. But tubas are just metal. Big fancy chunks of metal. Metal will change significantly and go kaput after a while, but it's a much MUCH slower wear. I bet my 40 year old tuba shows far less wear for its age than my 29 year old body does.

One thing I value with older items I am able to use, they have character, charm, and a certain cachet.

I used to like old stuff, but some of the new stuff is so much better these days. I don't have a sousaphone, but the 5 instruments that make money for me are all less than 10 years old, 2 of them are double basses I had made in 2009. I'm waiting for a new sousaphone to be great and I don't expect to wait too long.
Peace.
ASG

I sold my 2 VDB's for a bunch of money when they were high, wish I had a roll.....

I think perspective changes with the culture of the person. In the states you seem to highly value - even have reverence for old tubas.

That is far less the case in Europe. In England the build quality of 1980's Sovereign's is admired, but anything older is usually not considered worth much. I think the attitude is much the same in mainland Europe.

While I am interested that my Chinese fiancé sees little value in anything old - wants the house equipped with new stuff wherever possible

I have played horns from brand new to ancient. Some were well made, others were not. This applies to both the new ones and to the ancient ones. A well made instrument will play almost forever. Perfect example: a real "Strad" violin. Then again, my custom fanned fret bass is considered by all who play it one of the best 4-string bass guitars they have ever played, for both ease of playing, intonation and overall tone.

There are no absolutes. But I do agree that for older instruments, they must be evaluated for damage and internal corrosion or red rot and whether the maintenance is cost effective. My custom bass guitar cost over $1000 just in parts by the time I got everything together on it, but I have earned several times that amount gigging, and still use it to earn $$ gigging on an ongoing basis. So when its truss rod needed replacing (it actually seized up on me), because of the income potential and not being able to get another neck "off the rack," it was worth the extra $$ to have the fretboard removed and a new truss rod fitted. OTOH, I have a trumpet that has some intonation issues with most conventional mouthpieces. A used mouthpiece of the model it ended up needeing to get it to play in better tune and tone for @$30 was a reasonable expense considering what I paid for the trumpet used. A $150 Pilczuk or even more expensive Reeves or Najoom lead pipe or similar would not have been.

Neptune wrote:While I am interested that my Chinese fiancé sees little value in anything old - wants the house equipped with new stuff wherever possible

Well, house stuff is a little different. Tubas are only for one person. House things have to keep everyone happy (enough).

People who aren't into something rarely understand the value or cost or desirability or the passion involved. We live in a cheap / throw away culture where the presumption is that new is always better. It's the computer generation. Folks who have grown up since computers started to hit the conciousness of most folks have gotten use to the newest is better/smaller/cheaper than the last one with computers. They also know that it doesn't take too many years to make it practically obsolete as the software/memory etc. can't handle the latest apps. So it makes perfect sense to them that new is always better than old.

Technology has certainly made cars safer/faster and more fuel efficient - but is that necessarily better? Depends on your viewpoint. Today you can't work on your own car for the most part. The technology is beyond most folks. The engine bays are so tight that you have to remove half the engine just to change the spark plugs. So much of what you save on gas you now pay to the mechanic for repairs/maintenance. OTOH, cars don't break down like they use to. When I was a kid everybody did most of the work on their own cars and even the mechanically challenged at least changed their own oil. Not these days. Cars are way faster and yet how fast do you need to go? Where I live the highways are so clogged that I can ride my bike faster than the average speed of car travel. So is today's 300 HP car going to get you where you want to go faster than the 100 HP 1980 Honda? Safety is the one area that I think really has made a huge advance with cars over the years and is a big tipping point for me.

But the technology for Sousaphones hasn't changed much since 1925. One could argue that the new ones are inferior in build quality and selection. Look at all the different manufacturer choices that were available in the '20's - plus the buyer had the choice of 3 or 4 valves, variety of finishes. and even the width of the bell. You could customize your horn from the factory. Today the 1925 horn of course may have been used hard for years and have wear and tear, but for the most part can be rebuilt to like new conditions or even be in excellent shape. I would much rather have a vintage sousaphone then a new one. Better yet would be to be able to buy that 1925 horn only built new today just like it was in 1925.

I think ultimately the argument of old versus new really comes down to the item up for discussion and the individual buyer's needs and wants. Somebody not into tubas is never going to understand buying an old one especially for a lot of money.