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Best Tuba For Middle & High School Band???
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:12 pm
by Dan Schultz
I have a customer who will be purchasing several tubas for his school bands soon. He is leaning towards St. Pete's. I don't think this is a good choice but I'll throw it out to you. What would be your recommendations? Of course, price, durability, and intonation are prime considerations.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:18 am
by ArnoldGottlieb
Anything other than those. Jupiters, werils, used 186's garbage cans with holes drilled for mouthpieces. Dave Fedderly seems to have some solid school tubas in his shop and is a pleasure to do buisness with. Perhaps you and he might work something out.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:08 am
by dopey
we use cerveny 681's for our highschool, and just recently purchased a 686.
The 681s we've had are I think 10yrs+ old. While they are dented, they still look very good and all play well. I've seen less problems with these rotary then our piston euphoniums we have (yamaha's) which seem to stick alot more unlike our rotary which i've had nearly no problems with at all on mine.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:47 am
by Sam Gnagey
I just got a BBb Bach 4-valve piston horn in that looks like an ideal size for that niche. I think that Olds and maybe Reynolds has used the same design. I had a couple of 3-valve Olds tubas in my inventory when I taught middle school that played pretty well and looked a lot like this Bach. The new King 2341s are a good choice but perhaps a bit large for middle school.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:07 am
by craigpotter
The high schools in my are used a number of horns: the F Schmidt stencil of the VMI 3301 and 2103 ($4,700 and 3,400 respectively - a lot but well worth it i always thought), there were Yamaha 641's and 321's, Jupiters, my high school used (and still does use) Cerveny 681's (though i wouldn't recommend that for high school or middle school kids cause they are kinda thin, but they do have a good price tag), there were also miraphones, and of course the St. Petersburgs because the Tuba Exchange is in the area. All of them have their ups and downs, but all in all i liked the F. Schmidt/VMI and cerveny horns better as student equipment.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:07 am
by Lew
bloke wrote:...
If your band director friend has money and believes his students aren't wild primates (yeah, right), he could look at the newly redesigned King 2341 tubas (c. $4K w/case). Otherwise, the Weril model 980 4/4 four-piston top-actions (Yamaha 321 clone) at c. under $3K w/case will be destroyed at about the same rate of speed as anything in a public school setting...from Willson to Jao-Bing (or whatever).
The other consideration is that the top action valve design, like the Weril 321 clone, provides a little more protection for the valve stems when the students knock the tubas over (when, not if). Yes, the valve tubing still gets dented, but you don't break off stems or jam valves as can happen with front action valves.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:30 pm
by Biggs
NOTHING rotary...
Today's high school kids are wild, angry, drunken potheads (well, maybe only perhaps half of them). School tubas these days hit the ground hard DOZENS of times a year (as compared to when I was in school...NEVER...or if it did, you got your butt beat hard, and then beat again by your parents when you got home...and that was for doing it "ACCIDENTALLY" - as opposed to today's "ON PURPOSE").
I don't know about that, as my band director bought two MW 25s (I presume he robbed a bank as shortly before that we couldn't even afford a cabaca for the percussion section) over two years and they are both still in great condition. Most high school kids may be wild, angry, drunken potheads but most high school tuba players are not!
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:01 pm
by ken k
I feel the best horn for HS situation is the King 2341. it is built very sturdy and plays very easily. If you think you will have that one special player maybe spring for a Miraphone 186 or MW 25 (Model #?)
For middle school there is the King 1135 or 1140 whcihever has the forward valves (a 7/8th sized horn) or Conn 12J (same valve set as the little King but a little larger body).
Perhaps the little Werils bloke mentions too. Never played one personally but they have gotten good press. good for MS. The Jupiters we have bought at our MS have not aged well. And they have been fairly well cared for and not beaten.
ken k
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:10 pm
by Chuck(G)
Glassl fiberglass tubas, fix 'em with Bondo and spary paint:
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:27 pm
by ThomasDodd
Chuck(G) wrote:Glassl fiberglass tubas, fix 'em with Bondo and spary paint
Do they sound as bad as fiberglass sousaphones?
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:31 pm
by Matt G
ThomasDodd wrote:Chuck(G) wrote:Glassl fiberglass tubas, fix 'em with Bondo and spary paint
Do they sound as bad as fiberglass sousaphones?
Probably, but they raise patriotism!
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:37 pm
by Matt G
ThomasDodd wrote:Chuck(G) wrote:Glassl fiberglass tubas, fix 'em with Bondo and spary paint
Do they sound as bad as fiberglass sousaphones?
But how does this sousaphone sound?
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:41 pm
by ThomasDodd
Matthew Gilchrest wrote:ThomasDodd wrote:Chuck(G) wrote:Glassl fiberglass tubas, fix 'em with Bondo and spary paint
Do they sound as bad as fiberglass sousaphones?
But how does this sousaphone sound?
I don't know, but it looks dangerous
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:08 pm
by Biggs
That snake sousaphone...where did you find that? As an avid 'snake dude' I love it![/quote]
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:21 pm
by hurricane_harry
well, im in high school rite now and our band director springed for those 'beat um up horns' i hate them. terrible intonation. terrible tone.
terrible.....just about everything. and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere. if the director feel the player can take care of it, let um use it.
P.S. i would not suggest 3/4 tubas, i had a hard time making some REAL noise when i switched from that **** box to my drum corps contra bass.
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:50 am
by Chuck(G)
bloke wrote:Absolutely (
)...in just the same way that Chuck Dallenbach's "carbon-fiber" belled
(psst: isn't that "fiberglass"?) Yamaha tuba sounds "as bad as fiberglass sousaphones".
I wonder how many geezers played on nice white fiberglass sousaphones in high school concert band? That's what those sousaphone chairs were for, right?
If you read Glassl's promo material, they mention that Walter Hilgers has played a Glassl sousie in the German Brass. Also mentions that Hans Nickel likes 'em too.
Glassl offers to send endorsements upon request.
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:48 am
by phoenix
My high school has two Cerveny's, a little one and a big one. Not sure of model numbers. But they both hold up very well.
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:44 am
by ThomasDodd
bloke wrote:ThomasDodd wrote:
Do they sound as bad as fiberglass sousaphones?
Absolutely ( )...in just the same way that Chuck Dallenbach's "carbon-fiber" belled (psst: isn't that "fiberglass"?) Yamaha tuba sounds "as bad as fiberglass sousaphones".
OK, Chuck could probably make a fire hose sound pretty good. I not sure about tht carbon-fiber being a fiber glass. It's very different in other areas when it's used. No one with carbon fiber shafted golf clubs would consider them fiberglass.
Every fiberglass horn I've ever played was horrible. And the couldn't produce much volume on the field. Way to quick to over blow. Not the glassl horns are probably great, and better mad that teh junkers I've seen in the past.
But there is a reason fiberglass horns have a bad reputation.
For a middle/high school horn, the benifits probably win. I wonder if they make a convertable horn for marching...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:51 am
by Jay Bertolet
hurricane_harry wrote:and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere.
Oh my. That strikes a nerve with me. Why does
any high school student feel the entitlement to have quality equipment in their hands, provided free of charge? My encouragement: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having
any equipment to use, free of charge, should be seen for the
blessing that it is and not taken for granted. If you feel the need to have better equipment than that provided to you at no cost,
GO OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN!!!
End of rant.
Re
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:06 pm
by Ryan_Beucke
Jay Bertolet wrote:hurricane_harry wrote:and lets face it, yea alot of high school players should be using a garbage can with a hole drilled for a mouthpiece, but there should always be a working quality horn locked up somewhere.
Oh my. That strikes a nerve with me. Why does
any high school student feel the entitlement to have quality equipment in their hands, provided free of charge? My encouragement: WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having
any equipment to use, free of charge, should be seen for the
blessing that it is and not taken for granted. If you feel the need to have better equipment than that provided to you at no cost,
GO OUT AND BUY YOUR OWN!!!
End of rant.
In all fairness, the equiptment is never free of charge. It's either payed for by the taxes the parents pay, or in the case of many schools including my High School, you have to pay a fee every year or summer that you use a horn. And if the students had to buy their own instruments, music education as we know it would pretty much cease to exist.