TubeNet

bloke wrote:A famous tubenet contributor's second most famous quote (past "pfft") is "Ask your teacher"...

Should some vendors be so chummy with some teachers?

The problem is, how can you evaluate over the 'net the state of a student's chops, their potential, or what their ultimate goals are?

Add to this one's own particular tastes.

I think the answer is "all of the above", but I think that having the opinion of someone knowledgeable with your sound, equipment, and objectives is not a bad thing at all.

Nor is making yourself as familiar as possible with all potential options and probabilities as you [the blokester]obviously did.

My teacher was delighted if I tried to find out what I could and then asked his opinion if he thought I was on the right track, not just looking for an easy answer.

If that's all students do, gather information, then good on 'em, mate.

But it's also easy to have an unintended effect on people's playing and equipment.

So "all of the above".

Before many potential instrument purchases, I have instead played, "Ask your repairman."

I recently purchased an F since I'll be going away to music school in a few weeks and it was suggested I get a bass tuba for my studies. I wasn't really able to ask the teacher I would be studying with as he is a trombone player and has no connections to the "tuba world". However the teacher I was (and am studying with for a few more weeks) studying with is a euphonium player so she had some knowledge on tubas. Most of her students only play contrabass tubas (evidentially she barely ever get players "advanced" enough for an F tuba but I suppose I was the exception) so most of her personal knowledge was limited to CC's (and euphs of course). But she's been around a while and has some tuba playing colleagues that she was able to email and get information about F tubas from. I told what horns I was looking at (used mostly, money was an issue but I had some scholarships I had won so that's where it was coming from) and she would ask if any of her tuba friends had played on the horns and any feedback. It was quite helpful, I ended up buying a Wilson from a tuba professor that she knew well and the horn is just great!

I didn't post anything on here except on the "for sale" section (looking for tubas not advice about tubas) as I don't think a public forum would necessarily be reliable enough for such a major purchase as my first bass tuba. My parents weren't involved in the decision very much as they are not knowledgeable about tuba at all and I am, and most of the money used to purchase it came from scholarships I had won with my playing.

My teacher in high school and college felt very strongly about Cerveny horns and Perantucci mouthpieces and urged all his students to buy them. I don't know of any connection with Cerveny, but the mouthpiece thing did strike me a little odd, because his teacher, with whom he was still working at the time, was Perantoni. I never bought a Cerveny, but when I took up the tuba again last year, I turned straight back to Perantucci mouthpieces almost uncritically. But mouthpieces don't cost that much, comparatively, so it's not that big a deal.

I did find it interesting that in a visit to a large midwestern university that i was handed swag from a tuba store in the Carolinas.

Jeffrey Hicks wrote:I did find it interesting that in a visit to a large midwestern university that i was handed swag from a tuba store in FERNDALE, MICHIGAN

Here, fixed that for you.

My mother bought me my tuba in November of 2009. I did consult with my teacher about it (as well as a few other tuba 'feshnulz), but that purchase had the added condition of time. I needed a tuba quickly, so we didn't have all the months in the world to scout out the best tuba for the best price, take time to play test different kinds, etc.. (I still think I got the best tuba I could have gotten, though.)

Talking to the real issue at hand here, though, I believe that a private teacher is the best way to go about both: following instructions and listening to suggestions. There are times for both and it just depends on the issue at hand. I think it will also depend on how well you and the teacher know each other, how familiar you are, and other teacher/student relationship factors that don't have anything to do with musical or teaching skills because that will definitely influence a decision as big as the purchase of a tuba.

With regards to issues of musical performance, I usually always go with what my teacher suggests (and I like that his style is about giving suggestions and not orders). I trust him to know what's going to give me the best result and I'll take it up.

It has been with great anxiety, unease, and reluctance that I have recently decided to not act in accordance with two of my teachers' suggestions about a major decision I had to make. This was a really big "thing" and I naturally went to them first and many lengthy conversations took place where I was given a lot of information to think about and suggestions for what I should do. In the end, however, I thought the best choice for me was another one and I made that choice.

Here's the thing, though. One decision of mine that I know I did right with was choosing these people as my tuba teachers (honestly, though, as if I needed any more evidence than the improvements in my tuber-playin' ). Both of them were exceedingly supportive of me when I informed them that I disagreed with them and chose what I chose.

bloke wrote:Not all great music-teachers-who-play-the-tuba are equipment geeks.

Nor, does it make-or-break the player. Your example of our PO tubist is a good example that musicality, not athletics are paramount. To have the technical capability is a prerequisite, but in the end it is the music that is the reason we are there at all.

IMO, when choosing a horn or mouthpiece, a private teacher's opinion is FAR more reliable than anything on an internet message board in all cases. In fact, I have told my students in the past to avoid following the advice of message boards, especially in terms of equipment, and just about all of the professional teachers and players that I have met do the same. Not because of anything personal against anyone or their opinion or that I'm against message boards (obviously, since I'm posting on one now). However, I have found that these boards in general tend to be heavily obsessed with equipment. Also, it seems in the culture of message boards that many people (those posting and those reading) wrongly associate a large number of posts with an increased level of expertise, which in my experience is often the opposite. Most importantly, unless you can personally observe a student, spend some time with them, know their career goals and tendencies, their strengths and weaknesses, then I don't feel you can accurately prescribe a horn or mouthpiece for them. I think that message boards are a very useful and fun way to gain insight in to the opinions of others and make connections, and to even learn about the new and latest gear. However, the bottom line is that I would never recommend a student (nor would I) take equipment advice from someone who does not intimately know their playing. Even then, the advice, though well-meaning, can often be poor advice.

You stand to lose nothing by asking your teacher, and you are free to disagree. I bought my first tuba at 23 (or 24?), and by that point in life had tried a fair number of horns at shops and conferences and college. I kinda knew what I liked.

I asked Dave Fedderly which tuba in my price range was a good fit, he showed me a few tubas. I thought it was only coincidence that I liked the one he recommended most. It was almost a toss-up between two horns and the price difference sealed the deal for me.

mceuph wrote:IMO, when choosing a horn or mouthpiece, a private teacher's opinion is FAR more reliable than anything on an internet message board in all cases. In fact, I have told my students in the past to avoid following the advice of message boards, especially in terms of equipment, and just about all of the professional teachers and players that I have met do the same. Not because of anything personal against anyone or their opinion or that I'm against message boards (obviously, since I'm posting on one now). However, I have found that these boards in general tend to be heavily obsessed with equipment. Also, it seems in the culture of message boards that many people (those posting and those reading) wrongly associate a large number of posts with an increased level of expertise, which in my experience is often the opposite. Most importantly, unless you can personally observe a student, spend some time with them, know their career goals and tendencies, their strengths and weaknesses, then I don't feel you can accurately prescribe a horn or mouthpiece for them. I think that message boards are a very useful and fun way to gain insight in to the opinions of others and make connections, and to even learn about the new and latest gear. However, the bottom line is that I would never recommend a student (nor would I) take equipment advice from someone who does not intimately know their playing. Even then, the advice, though well-meaning, can often be poor advice.

I would agree that a teacher's opinion should carry more weight than advice given on an internet message board. However, lets keep in mind that many teachers do have some sort of relationship with vendors...and this can (and sometimes do) create conflicts of interest. The entire time I was in school my teacher only recommended Miraphone--period--and yes he had a long standing relationship with Miraphone. Miraphone is a great horn of course, but is it the right choice for everybody? Of course not. A mature student will take this into consideration and will do his/her "homework" by checking other sources and trying out different horns. This is a major investment and the more information you have, the better.


JJ

It is a problem, if a teacher gets kickbacks, which in turn skew his advice.

Teachers may have a strategy leading towards fairly standard instruments. That could be Miraphone 186 or, in its days, the old King 2341. That might not lead to many outstanding selections of instruments, but the worst disasters wouldn’t be likely to happen either.

Some teacher may encourage towards buying very expensive instrument. Some very happy results may occur, but what about the student, who has overstretched his budget just to end up with an instrument that isn’t a very happy sample, and which lead to loss of money?

Klaus

Don't ask this tuba teacher. He'll tell you to just get better on what you have or what the school provides for you. That's rarely what the student or poster wants to hear.

goodgigs wrote:OK. I guess I'll stir the pot a bit. What if a young poster on this board, asks about equipment because
He (or she) has no private teacher ?

That's all fine and okay as long as the poster knows and understands that everyone has their own opinion and that information from posters on TubeNet is worth exactly what he paid for it. I think that applies to a whole lot of other things here on TubeNet, as well.

I understand the points being made. However, assuming a trustworthy seller or advisor, not every buyer is driven by price or technology or the psychological satisfaction of a brand name.

I have bought used auction tubas after attempting to absorb lots of Tubenetters' comments about technical aspects. However, compiling masses of information is not for everyone. And I bought my Yamaha 822 F tuba based on a respected Tubenetter's opinion--not of the individual instrument--but of the horn's seller.

Bloke, I would say that it depends on why the student is asking around for that information. If I ask my teacher what tuba to buy with the intention, before asking, that I would buy whatever name came out of his mouth, I would definitely not be ready to ask my mom to buy me that instrument. Asking the same question, though, but with the goal in mind only to gather information and invite friendly suggestions would be one of the very first things I would do.

With something as important and expensive as a tuba, I would, to be quite honest, not blindly follow any person's (or group's) words. It's not that I don't trust people like my teacher, it's just that something like this is very subjective and personal in nature. I made sure to have an adequate trial period with the tuba I have now both to play on at home and to take to rehearsals.

My teachers all recommended something like a Miraphone 1291 CC tuba or one of the Perantucci CC tubas. But what did I go with??? A Willson 3100 FA5 BBb

bloke wrote:Whether valid or not... (and not necessarily my own view)

...you are invited to respond to this additional comment:

"Not all great music-teachers-who-play-the-tuba are equipment geeks. Several really fine models of tubas and mouthpieces have been created in the last few years, and "your teacher" may-or-may-not have played or heard of any of these models.

My response: most students looking for their first tuba are not well served by "equipment geek" recommendations.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Don't ask this tuba teacher. He'll tell you to just get better on what you have or what the school provides for you. That's rarely what the student or poster wants to hear.

That's an excellent point. Once a golf teaching pro told me with good humor but still rather bluntly when I started talking about new irons, "The problem is not the sticks." I've thought about that a lot lately. I suspect that beyond a certain fundamental level of quality it's pretty easy for most of us to overspend on equipment. Certainly it is for me.

I've recently begun learning how to play bluegrass and old-time fiddle. I play with an inexpensive bow because A) it was cheap and B) I'm not good enough to make anything more expensive sound better. Every fiddle player I've talked to (and read online) suggests that until the player knows they need a new bow, they don't really need a new bow. I would imagine that a similar thought would apply to tuba players: until a tuba player knows--without question--that they need a new tuba, they don't need a new tuba.