TubeNet

I had a Lexan Kellyburg as my main mouthpiece for a handful of months. I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it was to just see how ignorantly contemptuous people (usually kids, but plenty of adults) are to them. I was not allowed to use it in band class because it wasn't "real".

After a few weeks of using it in an orchestra and brass quintet, someone finally noticed that I was playing on one and commented on it (i.e. only looking at the mouthpiece in my tuba made them aware of its usage). At this time, a trumpet player said that every Kelly trumpet mouthpiece he played on was crap. A trombone player said that every Kelly trombone mouthpiece he played on was crap. A French horn player said that every Kelly French horn mouthpiece he played on was crap. They never complained to me that I sounded like crap during the weeks that I had been using it, so I guess Kelly just "got it right" with the tuba mouthpieces?



I don't use that mouthpiece anymore not because it's not-metal, but because I found a better mouthpiece for me to play on. I wouldn't hesistate for a moment, though, to use it again in a pinch.

It seems to me that Kelly could make some lexan mouthpieces that look as much like metal mouthpieces as possible. It seems to me that replicating the look of slightly tarnished silver (grey and black) would be pretty easy to replicate given some of the wild looking stuff they have now.

The Jackson wrote:I had a Lexan Kellyburg as my main mouthpiece for a handful of months. I can't begin to tell you how frustrating it was to just see how ignorantly contemptuous people (usually kids, but plenty of adults) are to them. I was not allowed to use it in band class because it wasn't "real".

After a few weeks of using it in an orchestra and brass quintet, someone finally noticed that I was playing on one and commented on it (i.e. only looking at the mouthpiece in my tuba made them aware of its usage). At this time, a trumpet player said that every Kelly trumpet mouthpiece he played on was crap. A trombone player said that every Kelly trombone mouthpiece he played on was crap. A French horn player said that every Kelly French horn mouthpiece he played on was crap. They never complained to me that I sounded like crap during the weeks that I had been using it, so I guess Kelly just "got it right" with the tuba mouthpieces?



I don't use that mouthpiece anymore not because it's not-metal, but because I found a better mouthpiece for me to play on. I wouldn't hesistate for a moment, though, to use it again in a pinch.

Very similar experiences for me, although without someone telling me I couldn't play on it (as though that would have gone over very well). Everyone's got their preconceived notions about such a thing, but overall I was really happy with what they were putting out. Another upside I found when I took up a contra again for a Dallas-based senior corps was that, unlike others, I was able to play without fear of burning my face after every break. I switched later but only because I found a mouthpiece that I liked overall moreso than a Helleberg of any materials.

I regularly use the SS Kellyberg, I always like my blue Kellyberg but in my horns it rattles in the leadpipe in the low register. I also enjoy the feeling of SS, so I found a used one for a good price and bought it. I still use the blue one for marching band in the fall when it's cold, it's just comfortable. The SS doesn't rattle and I like it, so I use it. If the blue one didn't rattle around I'd use it the same amount as the SS one.

tubatom91 wrote:I always like my blue Kellyberg but in my horns it rattles in the leadpipe in the low register.

My blue Kellyberg has not been my favorite mouthpiece, either. I wonder if the green ones are better - would have taken green if it had been in stock, and my green Kelly 1.5G bass trombone mouthpiece is fine. "Crystal" green, I mean.

I really enjoy my Kelly 18. The only thing I find about them is that it helps to wrap a piece of golfer's lead tape around the exterior of the mouthpiece at the bottom of the cup where the throat is to keep the mouthpiece stable at dynamic extremes, both directions, ppp and fff.

They're cheap. They're durable. They sound good. They don't break. They don't dent the rest of the horn when you drop it. If every band director in the country would set aside their biases and get them for marching and outdoor concerts, at the least, life would be good.

I do actually have a couple of mouthpieces I prefer for different reasons that I mainly use, but I always have the Kelly as a spare, and I use it outdoors, especially in weather extremes, and it's right there next to my other main mouthpieces.

Where each of my other mouthpieces may work marginally better in the respective applications (Curry for the upright bell, Kanstul for the recording bell, Wick for the Besson, etc.) they don't work well swapped around. They either lose focus, get stuffy, or get whangy in tone. The Kelly, OTOH, works equally well in all of my applications, and frankly, if I was told I had to play a selection of tubas for a gig, but could only take one mouthpiece, serious consideration would be given to my "marching maroon" Kelly 18.

Donn wrote:

tubatom91 wrote:I always like my blue Kellyberg but in my horns it rattles in the leadpipe in the low register.

My blue Kellyberg has not been my favorite mouthpiece, either. I wonder if the green ones are better - would have taken green if it had been in stock, and my green Kelly 1.5G bass trombone mouthpiece is fine. "Crystal" green, I mean.

well I only have the one color, maybe I should try a variety and see if they stop rattling through the color spectrum. FWIW it doesn't rattle in sousaphone bits, maybe because of the size difference I'm not sure.

I have to say I don't like them, that is not to say that they are rubbish, just that I don't like them, and I wonder why you would want to spend $8000 on the tuba but only $30 on your mouthpiece? I don't think it's like string instruments where the bow costs 10% (or more) tham the vaue of the instrument, but I would have thought that the best advice is it get the best mouthpiece you can afford rether than the cheapest available.
BTW, they do break, 2 of my colleagues who use them had them fall apart on the same march

I use a neon green one as my main mouthpiece. I find it plays the best for my horn. I don't get any grief over it. I told the conductor of my community in a polite way that if he wishes me to play something different he has to do two things. FIrst tell me that my sound isnt of any quality. Then he has to buy me a new one in a less ostentatious color. I don't have the spare cash for one.

This thread inspired me to try using a kelly for the first time in a while. I used a pink kelly 18 on my F tuba for my last practice session. It made my sound significantly thiner and my tone had far less color to it. This is all compared to my PT 44 that I have been using in recent months.

To make sure that I wasn't biased I played the second movement three times for members of my family while they were facing opposite of me. The first time through I used the kelly, second I used the PT 44, and third I used a custom shilke with a shallower cup than the previous 2 (I rarely ever use this mouthpiece and have never performed on it).

They all three agreed that the middle was the best performance. That it sounded deeper than the first, and the third just sounded weird (I agree, the shilke just doesn't fit my playing).

As much as I wish I could play my best on a Kelly I simply cannot. You get what you pay for and the 100 dollar PT 44 is probably always gonna sound better than the 30 dollar kelly.

I would love to use a pink mouthpiece (not in the orchestra because the conductor would probably have some issue) it just isn't gonna sound the best for me.

I can always dream though

cktuba wrote:

tubainty wrote:This thread inspired me to try using a kelly for the first time in a while. I used a pink kelly 18 on my F tuba for my last practice session. It made my sound significantly thiner and my tone had far less color to it. This is all compared to my PT 44 that I have been using in recent months.

To make sure that I wasn't biased I played the second movement three times for members of my family while they were facing opposite of me. The first time through I used the kelly, second I used the PT 44, and third I used a custom shilke with a shallower cup than the previous 2 (I rarely ever use this mouthpiece and have never performed on it).

They all three agreed that the middle was the best performance. That it sounded deeper than the first, and the third just sounded weird (I agree, the shilke just doesn't fit my playing).

As much as I wish I could play my best on a Kelly I simply cannot. You get what you pay for and the 100 dollar PT 44 is probably always gonna sound better than the 30 dollar kelly.

I would love to use a pink mouthpiece (not in the orchestra because the conductor would probably have some issue) it just isn't gonna sound the best for me.

I can always dream though

I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are really comparing apples to oranges. A better test would be your PT 44 against a Kellyberg. The 44 is a medium large Helleberg style mpc. and the Kelly 18 is a medium to smallish bowl style mouthpiece.

This may be true, but I held the 2 mouthpieces next to one another and the rims seemed to be the same diameter and the same thickness (I may be wrong as I did not measure).

Different strokes for different folks. When I was playing 1.5G sized mouthpieces in my euphonium, my favorite piece in that range was the Kelly. And this was after comparing against standard/megatone Bach's, a Klier, and a couple of Wick pieces (2AL and SM2). Some other euphonium players have said they didn't like it, but FOR ME it was easily the best piece I played in that sized range.

I bought a Kelly 24Aw in gold for my Eb tuba. The gold color looks like tarnished brass.
It plays fine but lacks the edge in my tone I get from a metal mouthpiece.
I used it steady for a year after my allergies to metals became apparent.
I replaced it with a G&W Diablo because a four hour rock gig dissolved the oils
from my lips and the lexan got sticky during that fourth hour and peeled skin from my lips inside the mouthpiece area.
I still keep it for a backup because it is light and easy to stow.
toots

All the tests in the world can be conducted to compare different mouthpieces and try to prove some hypothesis, but the truth is that mouthpiece choice is a personal preference. It's an opinion. Selecting and using a certain mouthpiece says, "Given my situation at the moment, this mouthpiece is the best one for me". The key part is the "for me" part. The phrase "Your mileage may vary" comes to mind and it has to be remembered all the time not just on TubeNet, but in every discussion.

I can summarize it this way. cktuba titled this thread "Kelly Lexan mouthpieces as your main mouthpiece", not "Kelly Lexan mouthpieces as the main mouthpiece".

Also, tubainty, I have a mouthpiece that is valued by its manufacturer at over $250 and I will be a monkey's uncle if I don't sound better with a $16 (Got it on sale ) Lexan Kellyburg in my tuba.

peter birch wrote:I have to say I don't like them, that is not to say that they are rubbish, just that I don't like them, and I wonder why you would want to spend $8000 on the tuba but only $30 on your mouthpiece? I don't think it's like string instruments where the bow costs 10% (or more) tham the vaue of the instrument, but I would have thought that the best advice is it get the best mouthpiece you can afford rether than the cheapest available.

You thought wrong.

The best advice is: USE THE MOUTHPIECE THAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU, IRRESPECTIVE OF PRICE.

The "best mouthpiece" for an individual has no essential or necessary correlation its price relative to the other mouthpiece options. If a $20 mouthpiece, gives you the ease of response you want and matches the sound in your head better than a $300 mouthpiece, use it; if the $300 mouthpiece works better, use that.

One of Dennis AsKew's students at UNCG took a flyer on a Giardinelli Symphony 1G when WWBW was closing out Giardinellis last year for $4, shipped. After a series of blind tests over a number of weeks against offerings from Giddings and Webster, Loud, Schilke, Josef Klier, Doug Elliott, Mike Finn, Denis Wick Classic, Heritage and Steve Mead, and others--tests audited by Doc AsKew and other members of the studio--it was readily apparent both to him and to the auditors that he sounded better and played more efficiently on the $4 Giardinelli than on any of the other, significanly more expensive but still affordable, mouthpieces he tested it against. I've had the opportunity to hear him several times since then, and I'm certainly not going to argue he made the wrong choice.

pgym wrote: The "best mouthpiece" for an individual has no essential or necessary correlation its price relative to the other mouthpiece options.

There could be a statistical correlation (though I agree that it isn't essential or necessary.) Here's why: any mouthpiece can be easily and accurately copied.

So the more people want a particular mouthpiece design, the more likely it is to be cheaply available. And, the cheaper a mouthpiece, the more likely it is to be of a design that many people want. QED

(Edit: note that this would be an inverse relation - the lower the price, the more likely to be best for a randomly selected player.)

I've always hated those Kelly (and other plastic) mouthpieces. As someone stated earlier they lack a certain edge and tone to my sound. The only advantage I can see to them is that they wont burn or freeze your lips in extreme temperatures. But I've been using metal mouthpieces in extreme temperatures for years and have never had any problems. They sound %1000 better too!

I have a Kelly Mellow Yellow 18... I like it but I use my PT-44.. I have used the 6 1/2 AL on my Conn Baritone. I might order a KellyBerg or the one size (25) that they are discontinuing (In Crystal Red of course.. Go LOBOS!! )

pgym wrote:

peter birch wrote:I have to say I don't like them, that is not to say that they are rubbish, just that I don't like them, and I wonder why you would want to spend $8000 on the tuba but only $30 on your mouthpiece? I don't think it's like string instruments where the bow costs 10% (or more) tham the vaue of the instrument, but I would have thought that the best advice is it get the best mouthpiece you can afford rather than the cheapest available.

You thought wrong.

The best advice is: USE THE MOUTHPIECE THAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU, IRRESPECTIVE OF PRICE.

The "best mouthpiece" for an individual has no essential or necessary correlation its price relative to the other mouthpiece options. If a $20 mouthpiece, gives you the ease of response you want and matches the sound in your head better than a $300 mouthpiece, use it; if the $300 mouthpiece works better, use that.

One of Dennis AsKew's students at UNCG took a flyer on a Giardinelli Symphony 1G when WWBW was closing out Giardinellis last year for $4, shipped. After a series of blind tests over a number of weeks against offerings from Giddings and Webster, Loud, Schilke, Josef Klier, Doug Elliott, Mike Finn, Denis Wick Classic, Heritage and Steve Mead, and others--tests audited by Doc AsKew and other members of the studio--it was readily apparent both to him and to the auditors that he sounded better and played more efficiently on the $4 Giardinelli than on any of the other, significanly more expensive but still affordable, mouthpieces he tested it against. I've had the opportunity to hear him several times since then, and I'm certainly not going to argue he made the wrong choice.

I'm not sure that I did think wrong. Of course I know a higher price does not necessarily make a commodity better. 2 things strike me though (1) the law of diminishing returns applies, up to a certain point the extra expense is worth it, and beyond that price it isn't. that price point is, of course, a subjective judgement, for one player it might be a Kelly, for another Monette, for me it is Perantucci, (2) If you spend $300 on a mouthpiece, you are probably paying $150 for the brand (you probably pay the same ratio for the Kelly name as well).
I remember when I got my first Hi Fi, I said to the man in the shop "here's what I have to spend, what are the best options?" and I haven't bought equipment form anywhere else since. Maybe that is a good approach to buying a mouthpiece

Boy, it got polarized quickly. Here's the deal: even if it isn't going to be a "main" mouthpiece, every tuba player should have one because they are cheap, light, don't break, dent or scuff when you drop them; it can stand being knocked around in a satchel, case, the car, etc.; and if something untowards happens to a player's #1 mouthpiece, at least it will get a player through a gig or two until the #1 can be repaired or replaced, and get a player through outdoor weather extremes without freezing or burning the embouchure, or worrying about the mouthpiece sticking in the receiver in the extremes. It's the cheapest "gig insurance" I know about.