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I've played on a LOUD LM 5 tuba mouthpiece and I really liked it. They obviously make some high quality mouthpieces, but has anybody played a LOUD LM-12? They say its the "loudest" mouthpiece made for tuba and can be used as a special application low register mouthpiece. What is the deal with the LM-12?

TUbajohn20J wrote:I've played on a LOUD LM 5 tuba mouthpiece and I really liked it. They obviously make some high quality mouthpieces, but has anybody played a LOUD LM-12? They say its the "loudest" mouthpiece made for tuba and can be used as a special application low register mouthpiece. What is the deal with the LM-12?

It has an extremely shallow cup (ca. 5/8" deep, IIRC) ...

I have an LM12 and love it for sousaphone playing and do occasionaly use it on my 983. It is a very shallow cup but very wide. I've been very pleased with it since I got it about 2 years ago.

SoundMinistries wrote:I have an LM12 and love it for sousaphone playing and do occasionaly use it on my 983. It is a very shallow cup but very wide. I've been very pleased with it since I got it about 2 years ago.

Is it something that should be used on a contrabass tuba, or strictly sousaphone, when that edge is needed? Should give a very bright sound if the cup is that shallow.

I'm gonna have one on Thursday...I'll post back then.

TUbajohn20J wrote:

SoundMinistries wrote:I have an LM12 and love it for sousaphone playing and do occasionaly use it on my 983. It is a very shallow cup but very wide. I've been very pleased with it since I got it about 2 years ago.

Is it something that should be used on a contrabass tuba, or strictly sousaphone, when that edge is needed? Should give a very bright sound if the cup is that shallow.

I don't play much contrabass but the couple times I've used it in a BBb I've been pleased with it.

The LM-12 is a copy of a mouthpiece I gave to Joe Murphy to duplicate:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18382&hilit=lm12" target="_blank

Yes, it would be deadly on a sousaphone. I've also used it on a Rudy CC cimbasso with great results.

...D

Some kids in town are using them to get the "loudest" sound possible on the field, and sometimes off. I honestly don't like it, and think in a concert setting the tone is just way too over-the-top, and does not have a characteristic contrabass tuba sound. There are many more appropriate models that are available in that brand. Honestly, I see a cup that shallow on a big horn as little more than a gimmick. Something in the C4 range is about as shallow as I would realistically consider.
HOWEVER, I could definitely see where it would be useful for doubling, as with the Bobo TT mouthpiece.

When I hear guys use it I cringe. The tone is nothing but tongue hanging out the bell. What good is loud if it sounds like crap! But maybe some folks want the tuba to sound like a bass trombone.

So, I got it today(I guess ahead of schedule).

I have the older fixed-rim style(cup=33.7mm). It is very heavy, heavier than my old style G&W Bayamo. Behind the shallow cup is all the weight. The rim width is medium, and is very rounded.

Yes, the low end is...disgusting. Tried it on my Cerveny Kaiser, low G was insane. The tone was fairly bad, and there was a slight breathy sound coming out of the horn(doesn't happen on any other mp).

If I had this piece a few months ago, I would have used it on jazz pieces we played in my school's wind ensemble, for some real "pop". I intend to use it mostly for marching, and since I'm the only sousa in the band I march with, it's perfect. More decibels, more punch/edge.

This is the Schilke "Faddis", but for tuba.

Sorry I took so long Mike!

I really thought I'd like it, but it didn't work for me at all in anything I tried it in- Eb tuba, bass trombone, contrabass trombone, --possibly-- Bb and sousa, I don't remember.
The low range wasn't that hot with it all. FWIW, I played a PT48 for a while (still have it) and I prefer that over the 12. I also have a Schilke 69C4 that I never really liked either though I think I'll try it again tomorrow. Now, the low range with the 48 in my small Eb is wild- 3rd valve low C and B natural can be out of this world! I love that little horn.

I think that if the 12 had a larger rim diameter (34-35mm maybe) and wasn't so heavy that I might like it better. I also would love to try a very shallow Bach 18-like mp. Supposedly a PT60 has the same rim but is 1/3 deeper.

Bob Kolada wrote:Sorry I took so long Mike!

It's cool man!

Jeez Bob - 35mm?! That's huge !!

the LM-5 is better for loud playing than the LM-12 because you are going to get more overtones and your core sound will blanket your band instead of just being an annoying cutting sound that blazes through the ensemble with a crass and nasty sound. Bass instruments are supposed to blanket the air with a warm wrap of sound ... not cut through it with like a knife. You can get way more volume out front with the deep mouthpiece than the shallow one because of the increased amount of overtones in your sound. Sounding louder does not always mean more sound out front. Listen to some recordings of warren deck. that LM-5 is based on his old mouthpiece and he buried everyone. No edge = more tuba in the mix... unless you want to sound like you are running around with a really large cimbasso.

ztuba wrote:the LM-5 is better for loud playing than the LM-12 because you are going to get more overtones and your core sound will blanket your band instead of just being an annoying cutting sound that blazes through the ensemble with a crass and nasty sound. Bass instruments are supposed to blanket the air with a warm wrap of sound ... not cut through it with like a knife. You can get way more volume out front with the deep mouthpiece than the shallow one because of the increased amount of overtones in your sound. Sounding louder does not always mean more sound out front. Listen to some recordings of warren deck. that LM-5 is based on his old mouthpiece and he buried everyone. No edge = more tuba in the mix... unless you want to sound like you are running around with a really large cimbasso.

What he said.... And well said too!

I have an LM-10 that I play around with from time to time but it sounds a little to bright for my taste. It could be usefull on solo work though. I have some friends that got LM-12's and they sounded nasty on them. No tone... just edge. I had to hold back some in the very good 60 piece community band I play in while using a GW Taku and my York-Master. Now with my Holton and that Taku I can, if I really want to, bury the band with a low rumble with no edge on the sound. That's what ensemble playing is all about... I consider the LM-12 a gimick mouthpiece kind of like the Dr. Young Reynolds mouthpiece. Fun but not really usable.

Bandmaster wrote:

ztuba wrote:the LM-5 is better for loud playing than the LM-12 because you are going to get more overtones and your core sound will blanket your band instead of just being an annoying cutting sound that blazes through the ensemble with a crass and nasty sound. Bass instruments are supposed to blanket the air with a warm wrap of sound ... not cut through it with like a knife. You can get way more volume out front with the deep mouthpiece than the shallow one because of the increased amount of overtones in your sound. Sounding louder does not always mean more sound out front. Listen to some recordings of warren deck. that LM-5 is based on his old mouthpiece and he buried everyone. No edge = more tuba in the mix... unless you want to sound like you are running around with a really large cimbasso.

What he said.... And well said too!

I have an LM-10 that I play around with from time to time but it sounds a little to bright for my taste. It could be usefull on solo work though. I have some friends that got LM-12's and they sounded nasty on them. No tone... just edge. I had to hold back some in the very good 60 piece community band I play in while using a GW Taku and my York-Master. Now with my Holton and that Taku I can, if I really want to, bury the band with a low rumble with no edge on the sound. That's what ensemble playing is all about... I consider the LM-12 a gimick mouthpiece kind of like the Dr. Young Reynolds mouthpiece. Fun but not really usable.

The edge can be taken off. Just take your foot off the pedal a bit.
I disagree with the statement "...bury the band with a low rumble with no edge on the sound. That's what ensemble playing is all about... ". There are definitely times when tubas can be too dark. "Darkness" is definitely a desirable trait in your tone, but not 100% of the time.

Hi there people... thought i'd FINALLY chime in on a topic rather than just lurking like i usually do.

I just wanted to give my thoughts on the LM-12. This is the only mouthpiece i use now. I've done countless gigs and recordings with it, and receive nothing but compliments about my tone. I especially love it when I play 'plugged-in.' As described earlier in the thread, this piece has a HUGE throat, so my theory is that alot of the 'highs' from the lip buzzing gets passed right through the horn... this is great for running into a bass rig as i do for my plugged-in gigs. The wider the sonic range of my tone going into the amp, the wider pallet i have to manipulate the sound, i.e. effects... envelope filters sound killer... wah-wah's too... anything that utilizes the 'highs' in the effect ends up sounding soooo good.

Granted, I ONLY play sousaphone now, but i even use the LM-12 in my little 3/4 top-action getzen... nails the low pitches with ease, even on the stuffy little horn... The LM-12 has a strange shape to the inner rim (as y'all may already know) ... this made it a little strange to get used to, but now all other pieces feel strange to me.

I use it on my 14K (probably a stencil horn... the serial number points to the 1920's...haha) and on my 1961 20K.
I can't wait to use it on my newly purchased 1925 raw-brass 38K that i'm picking up next week!! (yay!!!)

As far as it producing only 'ugly, blatty' sounds that are 'too loud'... I don't agree. I recorded that Verizon Wireless commercial from a couple years ago on it. A couple months ago I recorded the Steve Earle song "This City" with it... and that song was nominated for an Emmy! Allen Toussaint directed the horn section on that... i'm sure he would've told me if my sound was ugly.

The way I think of it... Sousaphone's are HUGE instruments (mostly)...especially the 6/4 and larger ones... so why not use a shallow cup mouthpiece to gain a little more control of all that massiveness? I find i have clearer attacks and separations using the LM-12....

I must have sold AT LEAST 6 of these around new orleans for Joe Murphy... even The Sousaphone Prodigy Himself that lives down here (shares his initials with Mouth Piece) is using the LM-12 as his main piece now because i turned him onto it... he said "nothing else sounds as good as this"....

I think it's the best MP available! hands down.

now i'm just rambling... there's my 2 1/2 cents

-jon gross
freelance sousaphone/tuba
new orleans

I have a PT-88 with the extra mass, whatever they called it, 'plus' maybe... LM-7, and LM-10

The LM-12 is the only one of these that sends so much 'white noise' into the horn... think about it: the players lips are buzzing directly in front of the 'larger-than-i've-ever-see-on-another-mouthpiece' throat opening...

The only thing i have that rivals the white noise of a LM-12 is a hand-tooled prototype Eastern European helicon mouthpiece i bought off of the helicon player from Fanfare Savale... my lips actually touch the bottom of the bowl on that, and the throat is not rounded AT ALL... it is a sharp edge into the shaft of the piece... almost like it was un-finished. of course, that one is made to just honk percussively very, very fast on an eastern euro helicon... he sounded good on my 20K with it though...

ps... i had to pay him $200 american AND give him my shoes for it... it's ok though... they were $20 Walmart specials... maybe he just wanted to brag to his friends, but he tried them on and they fit... gotta love gypsy brass!

The largest throat I've seen is on both of the Dr. Young mouthpieces. There is no throat to speak of. The funnel goes down to the top of the stem and from there it is perfectly cylindrical to the lead pipe.

I have a LM-12 and find that on my 6/4 BATs I get almost the same effect with the LM-12 and the Dr. Young mpc's. Kinda weird. ... Neither of those put as much air thru the horn for me as do my 35+ mm extra-deep AAA cups made in both brass and titanium.

I have played Sousaphone and a Bb Tuba with the Houser MK-12 version of the loud. My Opinion is that, Its takes alot of air to fill up, it force you to develop a new embouchure with the rim being so big, and its hard sometimes switching from low notes to a higher note, because the mouthpiece so wide. So, i would recommend this mouthpiece for marching band or if you are playing a dark piece on a tuba. But the lower register is on point, if you play super loud like me it will make them lower notes sound nasty and krispy. #Sousaphone