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Question for the repair gurus (or anyone who might know):
Can a sloppy solder job like this be cleaned up? How? There are no blobs, but it's really smeared all around there. Thanks in advance!

Assuming that's a silver plated horn.....

Silver LOVES lead. It appears that the leaded solder has been absorbed into the silver. Once this happens, there's virtually no getting it off. Some repairmen are still using 50/50 solder. It's a good idea to NEVER use 50% lead on silver plate. Using 30% leaded solder will help.

That's a tough area on a sousaphone to make look nice since it's so exposed and subject to extreme wear. A bow protector might be in order if you want it to look good.

If it's a raw brass horn.... just buff it off.

IF it is over silver it will be hard to get rid of. On brass, well, you can work it off. Might be just as well to accept that whoever did it was not really good at such work and just say that your sousy has soul.

Sorry

Ken

Yup, it's silver. Guess I'm hosed, huh? There is already a lot of scuffing and plating loss there, so a little smeared solder is no big deal, right. The horn is nearly 100 years old, I hope I hold up that well!

That's the bad thing about silver. The finish can (notice I said 'can') last a lifetime but solder bleeds into the silver and stays. Even the finest tech is going to stain it... and hate doing it.

What a shame, that is one beautiful looking axe.

You could use some extremely fine grit paper to work down to the level with the silver, but, I think it best to accept that what you got is what you got.

If you find you really hate it - I'd gladly give it a new home.

What can one say about something being hurt like this?

Hey, get a good pizza, your favourite drop, and sit down and have a cry then get over it. S**t happens.

I know how you feel - but what is done is............

Ken - who if he were in that good condition at 70 would be jealous of that beauty!!!!!

I have editted this a couple times now becsause I really feel for you. If it were pristine new, not old and a bit rough, you might be able to hide the damage. My sincere advice is accept that it is what it is now and possibly not use or recommend the person who did that to it.

I'm not saying "I told ya" but others might learn from your loss - make sure you get somebody who really knows and CARES about what they are doing to your pride and joy.

Mike, I really do feel hurt to see this.

That Sousy looks really great for being 100 years old! Wow!

Question about the 50/50 solder...

I used to do stain-glass (windows, lamps, clocks) as a hobby and always used 50/50 (tin/lead) to solder the project for strength. Then the final soldering job with 60/40 (tin/lead) for smoother - shinier finish. Is lead solder even legal today?

Rick (wondering if all the lead vapors I breathed all those years is why I have trouble memorizing music today)

Rick F wrote:That Sousy looks really great for being 100 years old! Wow!

Question about the 50/50 solder...

I used to do stain-glass (windows, lamps, clocks) as a hobby and always used 50/50 (tin/lead) to solder the project for strength. Then the final soldering job with 60/40 (tin/lead) for smoother - shinier finish. Is lead solder even legal today?

Rick (wondering if all the lead vapors I breathed all those years is why I have trouble memorizing music today)

Isn't that a good thought???

Dar as I know, yes, lead solder is still legal, at least here, but it can be harmful. At least it isn't as bad as asbestos for which a safe nethod of use is very scarce. Lead, used carefully is a very good material. Asbestos is totally unsafe - and I can only hope it never catches me afteer some time of working in clouds of the stuff.

I would be VERY interested to hear if the new Kanstul bells have a small percentage of lead in the aloy they use. A funny thing with lead in different alloys. With tin, it means a low melting point and softness and workability. In Brass it actuall helps give hardness whn tempered and was, as I have been told, part of why some of the old brass alloys were better than most.

Tales have been told about the Romans going backward due to having their very advanced water reticulation systems built with lead pipes. Not good stuff for a lot of things!!!!!!!!

As for memory loss - hey, some times I now wish I had more of it so I could just dream about the good times.

Rick F wrote:That Sousy looks really great for being 100 years old! Wow!

Question about the 50/50 solder...

I used to do stain-glass (windows, lamps, clocks) as a hobby and always used 50/50 (tin/lead) to solder the project for strength. Then the final soldering job with 60/40 (tin/lead) for smoother - shinier finish. Is lead solder even legal today?

Rick (wondering if all the lead vapors I breathed all those years is why I have trouble memorizing music today)

Leaded solder is not legal for plumbing work.

I use nothing but 70/30. This is what is sold around here for stained glass work. 70/30 is a little more difficult to use inasmuch as it remains plastic for a shorter duration than 50/50.

Yamaha switched to unleaded solder several years ago. I don't know about the other manufacturers. I find all of the 'hullabaloo' over the use of leaded solders on music instruments very amusing because I haven't seen one single case of it causing health problems either from it's application as a way to join brass... or the prolonged breathing of the vapors. I suppose if someone had his/her nose in it for eight hours a day... it could cause problems. But... it's not likely that I'm going to be worried about my exposure to it. Along those same lines.... I've not seen one single case of brass poisoning, either. I've seen allergy reactions due to contact with every imaginable metal, though... but nothing profound.

BTW... that problem memorizing music gets worse with age!

If the plating is of reasonable average thickness, I use a 10''x 1'' thick chamois wheel at reasonably high speed, plenty of rouge and light pressure, I repeat light pressure. It will generate enough heat that will mop things up and leave it nicely burnished. Still, you need to be very careful, it can cut through the plate as well. Just be sure the excess solder is gently heated and wiped away so it is only a very fine film, before going at it with a wheel. If it's a wimpy plate job like on many Kalison horns, I would recommend to just walk away.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank" target="_blank

Daniel C. Oberloh wrote:If the plating is of reasonable average thickness, I use a 10''x 1'' thick chamois wheel at reasonably high speed, plenty of rouge and light pressure, I repeat light pressure. It will generate enough heat that will mop things up and leave it nicely burnished...

So maybe there is some hope? Serial number dates this horn to pre-1915, the silver is nice and thick. You can see just how thick in a few other places where it is scratched through to the brass. The thing is, I'll be selling this beauty (as much as I hate to) and I want her to look as good as possible. I certainly don't trust the local guy who botched this to fix it, but I'm not sure boxing it up and shipping it to a competent tech (or an artist such as yourself, Dan) would be worth it in terms of return on my investment. Perhaps the knowledge that it can be fixed will be enough to placate the next potential owner? Much to think about, I have.

And Ken, thanks for the kind words. The biggest shame of this is the fact that it had just been through Lee Stofer's shop, completely de-dented, and got a little banged up in the shipping carton on it's way back to me. The local guy had to remove the guard wire to get the dent out (no big deal, right?) but he made a mess of it when he put it back together. Sheesh.

THE talk of banning tin ead solder on band instruments is not about the user it is about the fitter soldering the horn toghter. Its about the vaoprs. Most factories have fixed the problem with better ventalation. Of course solder should be invisable to the end user . Most instruments are lacquered or plated protecting the user from any contact..

As to the silverplate. The horn probably heavily silverplated I would use some 4-O steel wool to take off the excess. Use small pieces and take your time. Start with a new piece to cut the lead and use a used up piece , a piece that has been Loaded and dulled to finish. 4-O will also leave the finish looking the same as the rest of the horn .
The wool is not very agressive and you can control the cut by varieng the pressure you use.
I have used the same technic on bright silver with great success,
Ray Noguera

Wouldn't it be possible, if this is merely lead solder on the surface of the silver plate, to use a knife blade drawn across the surface at right angles to it, to scrape away the lead? I do this to remove burn stains from copper plate on my pots before cleaning them with lemon juice and salt. The knife blade does leave some scratches [probably would have fewer of these if the blade were really sharp], but these can then be polished out with the steel wool and, later, a buffing wheel lightly applied. The fact that the surface is convex allows the straight edge to contact a small tangent at a time, without contacting a large amount of surface area at once, which would probably scratch a lot, since two flat surfaces couldn't be completely even.

Is there something wrong with my thinking here? Lead is pretty easy to carve away with a knife . . . .