TubeNet

bloke wrote:Given nearly complete consideration of fashion-over-function in virtually all aspects of life .............Which of these features, fad-wi$e, is worth more $$$$ in the year 2004, a wider bell flare, or a set of 4 piston valves + 1 rotary valve (as opposed to 5 rotary valves)?

Hmmmmm....... lessee here... wellll..... if my 4 rotor CC Mirafone, my Eb 4 rotor Mirafone, and my BBb 4 rotor B & S stencil all of a sudden had a 22" bell and four pistons.... I'ld be pissed!

I wouldn't ever give up function for fashion... I think that the rotary valves on my PT-20 are the quietest and fastest rotors I have ever seen. I take damn good care of them and I wouldnt give them up for pistons any day. I do enjoy the 19" bell, however I do give that up for the YFB-621 that I play for some higher licks in solo and orchestral work. I didn't buy my tuba for anything fashionable about it. I play in a large wind ensemble at college and an even larger community band occasionally and the 19" is for projection.

heck, just take a G50 bell (made by meinl-weston) or the new "Konn" or "Cing" bells and see if it will fit on a 186. transform a $3k instrument into a $5k "custom" ! (assuming it will fit)

I can't stand the piston "big valve" sets on a lot of new tubas. My hands are too small.

Which of these features, fad-wi$e, is worth more $$$$ in the year 2004, a wider bell flare, or a set of 4 piston valves + 1 rotary valve (as opposed to 5 rotary valves)?

I expect that the pistons would be more valuable than the bigger bell flare on a rotory instrument (but, it wouldn't be MY preference).



Christian

Or, what if we could magically transform it back to rotors again, whenever they come back in style?

I find that I'm caring much less and less about fashion these days. The only people who know or care about what equipment we use are other tuba players. Our audience and fellow musicians just want it to sound good.

It bears asking if the on the whole that the older tried and true models are actually better horns (sound, versatility) than the new stuff.

Well,
The best, hottest performances I've managed to eke out this year were on an old-style King 2341 BBb, an old Alexander 163 CC, a 1921 Conn BBb, and an older Mirafone 186-4U CC - nothing new or trendy here.

My all-time best performances were on an old Conn BBb, a Rudi 3/4 CC, and a Rudi 5/4 CC. I've not yet performed on a modern piston valve CC that I really liked as well as these old standards.

But, all that being said, I'll build a trendy horn for anyone - for the right price ;^)

bloke wrote:Which of these features, fad-wi$e, is worth more $$$$ in the year 2004, a wider bell flare, or a set of 4 piston valves + 1 rotary valve (as opposed to 5 rotary valves)?

By the way, quit using the small font. Even with my computer glasses, I have to pull out the magnifying glass, fer cryin' out loud.

Taken together, those two features are worth $2000-4000, or more. As evidence, I offer:

-What would a Yorkbrunner be worth with a rotary valve section. Hirsbrunner makes a big rotary tuba, but they don't sell it here.

-Why would Meinl-Weston see the need to add the 2182 to their product line? Surely they observed that the 182 wasn't selling well enough.

The pistons are worth more than the wide bell (now, prove me wrong, heh, heh).

On the other hand, a King 2341 is no more expensive than competitive rotary tubas in BBb. So, perhaps CC is the biggest fad of all.

Rick "who got his wide-belled, piston-valved BBb tubas for no more than a comparable rotary CC, and for much less than a piston CC" Denney

Rick Denney wrote: By the way, quit using the small font. Even with my computer glasses, I have to pull out the magnifying glass, fer cryin' out loud.

Try Mozilla Firefox for a browser:

http://www.mozilla.org/

You just hold down alt and your mouse wheel serves as a zoom control. Joe's teensy-weensy type springs into view. I think Opera has the same function.

bloke wrote: - magically be converted from a rotary to a piston instrument?

That would be a negative. Rotary horns are "better" and worth more.

- magically be converted from a 16-inch bell instrument to a 20-inch bell instrument?

Well with tubas bigger is better, so the bigger bell is worth more.

Which of these features, fad-wi$e, is worth more $$$$ in the year 2004, a wider bell flare, or a set of 4 piston valves + 1 rotary valve (as opposed to 5 rotary valves)?

Since they are opposite directions, I think the magnitude is more important. The pistons would reduce the value more than the bell would increase it.

I guess I missed a recent trend?
Are pistons back in style for Tubas?

Still the valves will have a larger effect on the "value" than the bell.

I am still waiting for recording bell / bell front to come back in style. Most newer auditoriums and churches are designed to be acoustically dead and depend on a "sound system" and the unqualified moron running it. So, your bell goes up into sound deadening material on the ceiling and walls and the sound is never heard from again. BF solves that problem. I had that problem big time when playing on tour with the Lee University Symphonic band. My last semester with them I brought a Martin 6/4 Recording bell BBb, and never had that problem.

The pistons on my B&S cost me 1K more than the rotary tuba of the same model so rotors are not always cheaper.

Of the two, the bell is probably the factor that would change the value the most. 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 1/4, 19/4 it all comes down to size.

But what do I know?
David

Chuck(G) wrote:Try Mozilla Firefox for a browser:

http://www.mozilla.org/

You just hold down alt and your mouse wheel serves as a zoom control. Joe's teensy-weensy type springs into view. I think Opera has the same function.

I have Firefox already, but no mouse wheel.

Rick "who uses a laptop with a trackpad, usually balanced on one knee while sipping a latte" Denney

I thought I was getting the best stuff from TubeNet. Now I find out I was supposed sip latte while I'm aboard! This is bitterly disappointing!

ThomasDodd wrote:I guess I missed a recent trend?
Are pistons back in style for Tubas?

Yes, they are back in style, and have been for, oh, about ten or fifteen years. At one time, the Miraphone 186 or 188 was in the hands of nearly every working pro (short of those orchestral members of the York Cult). Now, most who once played 186's now are playing Getzen G-50's, Conn 56J's, PT-4's, M-W 2145's, and so on. And those wanting bigger stuff are playing M-W 2155's (or 2000's if they have the scratch, Gronitzes, the various Yorkish models, PT-6's, and so on.

Even amateurs in community bands are sporting King 2341's instead of Miraphones, these days.

Rick "who does, however, see the beginnings of a rotary backlash" Denney

...

TubaRay wrote:I thought I was getting the best stuff from TubeNet. Now I find out I was supposed sip latte while I'm aboard! This is bitterly disappointing!

And I'll bet you don't have a laptop balanced on one knee, either. Philistine!

Rick "who reads his email at Starbucks while traveling" Denney

Daryl Fletcher wrote:In Firefox, the CTRL key with either the - or + key will do the same thing.

Hey, quit trying to make it my fault that Joe isn't happy until he's used every available HTML tag in his messages.

Rick "

• Enough already

" Denney

A Starbucks customer and his money are soon parted.

I should know, I work at one

Sousie

Rick Denney wrote: I have Firefox already, but no mouse wheel.

<Ctrl> + <+> and <Ctrl> + <->

I never liked a mouse anyway.