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Index or Middle Finger?

As obvious as it may seem to play the 4th valve with your middle finger because of how much longer it is than the index finger, are there any schools of thought out there preferring one over the other?

Thanks!
Irving

I use both and go back and forth depending on the angle I'm holding the horn and to just give my hand a different position to help in avoiding hand cramps. I probably use the middle most often though, but have no preference either way.

I use the index finger only.

Every finger that reaches the valve will do, I guess...

Index is the finger that all of my heros used so I am an index man.

superflatA3 wrote:Index or Middle Finger?

As obvious as it may seem to play the 4th valve with your middle finger because of how much longer it is than the index finger

Obvious to whom?

Fact: the index finger is much more dextrous and facile than the middle finger.

Fact: the vast majority of implements designed to be operated by a single finger are designed to be implemented by the index finger.

Fact: a three-finger grip comprising the middle, ring, and pinky fingers not only "feels" more natural than a grip involving the index, middle, and pinky finger, it's is much more stable.

The "obvious" conclusion is that the 4th valve is "obviously" meant to be operated with the index finger.

Fact: I play the 4th valve with my left thumb. But mine is a four-on-top version; I can't reach them all with my right hand.

MA

Grip is most definitely a factor and can vary with the horn you choose to play on- the ergonomics are significantly different from horn to horn in many aspects (i.e. the distance between the thumb rest and valves and, in this case, the distance between the third valve slide and the main tubing).

I ask for advice on left hand technique because tension seems to creep into my sound and I discovered that on such excerpts as "Pineapple Poll" or extended practice hours, my left hand is in knots from both holding the horn up and high demand of 4th valve action.

And pgym, I should've said "As practical" instead of "As obvious" =)

Thank all for the continued input!

On the Sovereign I played it strictly with the index finger. But when moving to the Prestige, with the tuning trigger being played with the thumb, I struggle with the reach to use my index on the 4th valve. I was forced to switch to the middle finger... not as crazy about that, but it works. The index finger feels much more natural.

Use what feels the best.

Slightly off topic but might help with the tension issue. I see many players of the 3+1 euphs with their RIGHT pinkies stuck up in the air - trying to stay out of the way. The problem with this is that the ring finger and the pinkie share the same tendon which is why weird valve combinations using the 3rd and 4th finger a lot, are a little more challenging to master.

I have my students tape the pinkie to the ring finger so that both fingers are doing the exact same thing and the tendon is "dedicated" to one motion. Making this kind of a change can do a lot to remove tension from the body.

Just an observation.

Roger

Roger Lewis wrote:... that the ring finger and the pinkie share the same tendon

Off topic a bit for the original post, but related a bit for the above post: for those younger players (with smaller hands) using a straight 4 valved horn where the 4th valve is placed a little lower than the rest - I know the Yamaha YEP-321 is designed that way - attach a piece of cork on top of the valve cap to make the top of the valve level with the other three. Because the pinky and ring finger tendons are connected when using just the 4th valve, it tends to drag down the ring finger as well (sometimes causing the valve to be partially pulled) raising the 4th finger up tends to alleviate the dragging of the 3rd.

This is a trick that Harold Brasch taught me back in my Jr. High days when studying with him at the International Peace Gardens Music Camp. What a difference it made!

Another way of defeating the potential for the 3rd valve being partially engaged when pressing the 4th valve is to twist the hand slightly to the right when depressing the 4th valve (I hate it when valves are depressed - they require so MUCH counseling).

When you do this instead of using the muscles to press the valve down (since it is basically a shared muscle) you are now using the skeletal system of the pinkie to depress the 4th valve leaving the 3rd finger with full use of the muscle.

Just a thought.

Roger