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Dear Tubenetters,
I have an elderly trumpet playing friend who plays on a couple of really old mouthpieces that look to me to be worn to the brass. I have been told that brass poisoning is possible and have convinced him into letting me have these plated.
My question is what is the best and quickest course of action. Can I just have these cleaned and trued and take them to the local silver plater?
Thanks, Bubba

Here is an interesting comment on 'brass poisoning':

http://old.nabble.com/Brass-poisoning-td11696613.html

I've also done a lot of research on the subject but have turned up nothing but 'dead ends'. Some folks have allergic reactions to various metals but I've never heard of anyone actually being poisoned by brass. I work with bare brass day in and day out and if I thought there was reason for concern... I would be.

That being said... you should consult one of the mouthpiece manufacturers rather than just take the MP's to a local plater.

TubaTinker wrote:Here is an interesting comment on 'brass poisoning':

http://old.nabble.com/Brass-poisoning-td11696613.html

I've also done a lot of research on the subject but have turned up nothing but 'dead ends'. Some folks have allergic reactions to various metals but I've never heard of anyone actually being poisoned by brass. I work with bare brass day in and day out and if I thought there was reason for concern... I would be.

That being said... you should consult one of the mouthpiece manufacturers rather than just take the MP's to a local plater.

That is all correct, no such thing as "brass poisoning," only dermatitis experienced by a few people who are sensitive to it. And "local platers" generally don't know what they're doing, and if they do, they probably have a minimum charge that far exceeds the value of the mouthpiece.

Part of the problem with bare brass mouthpieces is about the traditional alloy used exactly for this purpose. Adding a very few percents of lead (1 or 2) makes the blanks behave much better on the turning lathe.

Before I finally found the Yeo signature mouthpiece for my euphonium and bass trombone playing, I considered having a Danish mouthpiece maker making a custom sample to my specifications. I was warned by the maker that if I liked the non-plated sample he would send out for approval, I would likely find the final plated sample being too narrow in all dimensions. Plating affects the properties of the mouthpiece.

Klaus

Dear Tubenetters,
Thanks for the info on "brass poisoning". Very educational, I will make sure my friend is not too concerned about my warning... However he may prefer the feel of a fresh silver plate better than the worn brass (I think I would) and I probably will plate at least one of his mouthpieces.
Thanks, Bubba

Doug Elliott wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Here is an interesting comment on 'brass poisoning':

http://old.nabble.com/Brass-poisoning-td11696613.html

I've also done a lot of research on the subject but have turned up nothing but 'dead ends'. Some folks have allergic reactions to various metals but I've never heard of anyone actually being poisoned by brass. I work with bare brass day in and day out and if I thought there was reason for concern... I would be.

That being said... you should consult one of the mouthpiece manufacturers rather than just take the MP's to a local plater.

That is all correct, no such thing as "brass poisoning," only dermatitis experienced by a few people who are sensitive to it.

Well, strictly speaking, that's not quite true: there are documented cases of brass poisoning, but they all involve either:

a) long term exposure to brass dust or fumes (see MSDS); of

b) direct ingestion of multiple gram quantities of brass;

neither of which condition is likely to be encountered by the majority of brass instrumentalists (but might be by repair techs), or

c) exposure to leaded brass, which could be an issue with antique mouthpieces.

Nevertheless, it does appear from available medical literature that the probability of contracting of "brass poisoning" from unplated mpcs or handling raw brass instruments is minuscule.

it happens to me...
I've just learned to not put myself in danger, by applying raw brass rimmed mouthpieces directly on my face. This topic comes up once in a while and I can say from experience you won't die from this but it is rather uncomfortable to find out that you have a reaction. I'm not sure what happens to everybody else but when it happened to me it was red uncomfortable bumps on my face, not dis-similar to acne, except for the fact that the bumps were hard and very very tender to the touch. They make playing rather uncomfortable, which may have contributed to my lack of practicing in middle school and early high school . Don't screw around too much if you start feeling pain.

tubatom91 wrote:it happens to me... ....

Yup. There are folks who are allergic to nickel, brass, chrome, and/or many other materials... including silver plating. Stainless steel even contains nickel and cannot be worn/used by some. Pierced earrings are an excellent example of a use for materials that tend to be hypo-allergenic. Materials such as solid gold and some plastics tend to cause less problems.

I've had a nice little "sousaphone rashes" on my arms from raw brass + sweat in the past. I have a mouthpiece now that I am replacing because of uneven plating on the rim. It's small, and I know that arm skin and lip skin are different, but I'm not about to push my luck with it in favor of saving a few bucks.

I've always heard that Anderson Silver Plating is the best.

Off topic from the original post but has to do with plating metal: is it true that brass requires to be nickel-plated before silver-plated because nickel attaches to silver better than silver attaches to brass?

superflatA3 wrote:Off topic from the original post but has to do with plating metal: is it true that brass requires to be nickel-plated before silver-plated because nickel attaches to silver better than silver attaches to brass?

Yes and no - it doesn't have to be nickel plated if you copper plate it instead, and who knows, there might be other possibilities. From my worn out mouthpieces, I'd say it's usually very thin copper.

I have had Vladimir @ Dillon Music redo and replate for me. Absolutely the best, and reasonable in price. Yes, by all means, do what you can to encourage getting the mouthpieces replated.

superflatA3 wrote:Off topic from the original post but has to do with plating metal: is it true that brass requires to be nickel-plated before silver-plated because nickel attaches to silver better than silver attaches to brass?

Many platers like to use nickel for that purpose because it gives a very smooth shiny base for the silver or gold, but it's a very bad idea for mouthpieces because of the likelyhood of sensitivity to nickel. Copper is the right material.

Doug Elliott wrote:

superflatA3 wrote:Off topic from the original post but has to do with plating metal: is it true that brass requires to be nickel-plated before silver-plated because nickel attaches to silver better than silver attaches to brass?

Many platers like to use nickel for that purpose because it gives a very smooth shiny base for the silver or gold, but it's a very bad idea for mouthpieces because of the likelyhood of sensitivity to nickel. Copper is the right material.

I'm in that camp. My body chemistry completely corrodes nickel. I have to be especially careful with the nickel outer tubes on my tubas.

Thanks again for all the Tubenet wisdom.
Best, Bubba