"dogfight"
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:06 pm
What does this term mean? I have seen it referred to several times and have no idea what it is about.
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Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:13 pm
The dogfight is the part of a march also known as the "break strain."
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:31 pm
Also sometimes called an "interlude" (especially in jazz) but "dogfight" is more specifically a Call and Responce break - a good example is in "Beer Barrel Polka" at the change to the Trio.
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:54 am
Nope. It's typically after the trio. The trio is then usually repeated after the dogfight.goodgigs wrote:The most famous dog fight in the world is in The Stars and Stripes where the basses descend and the high instruments answer (just before the trio).
It is typically just before the trio and is typically a call and answer form but not always exactly that.
It is, however, often the best part of the march for the tubas.
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:03 am
I imagine the "dogfight" section of a march to be similar to that of a true aerial dogfight where there are 2 parties or more in attendance for "shoot and be shot" battle, or as put naturally in music, the "call and response" between low brass - high brass or woodwinds - brass.
To me, the imagery of a "dogfight" in the band world HAS to include the low brass, the deepest growlers of the pack
To me, the imagery of a "dogfight" in the band world HAS to include the low brass, the deepest growlers of the pack
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:36 am
I think you are right on this - for some arrangements. In the Los Trancos Woods Marching Band we typically do an Interlude leading in to a Trio, then the Dogfight is between the repeat of the Trio, especially in "Beer Barrel Polka." Sometimes we try for a 3rd time around on the Trio on that song, but if that is not in the cards the Dogfight turns into the opening measures of The Dragnet theme and stops... gets a few gigglesTodd S. Malicoate wrote:Nope. It's typically after the trio. The trio is then usually repeated after the dogfight.goodgigs wrote:The most famous dog fight in the world is in The Stars and Stripes where the basses descend and the high instruments answer (just before the trio).
It is typically just before the trio and is typically a call and answer form but not always exactly that.
It is, however, often the best part of the march for the tubas.
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:07 pm
Usually, but not always, the dogfight is a direct modulation to a related minor key, the call and response starting in the low brass, and then some sort of workaround to the final strain, usually a recapitulation of either the main theme or trio theme. The best way I have described a dogfight is it is like the middle section of any superhero cartoon during the part where the superhero is taking a temporary hit from the villain of the cartoon before the superhero rallies and defeats the villain.
I particularly like the dogfight in "Colonel Bogey."
I particularly like the dogfight in "Colonel Bogey."
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:39 pm
I see that Wiki agrees with you*, butJosef Rieder wrote:Dog fights are in Sousa's marches, everyone else has break strains.
I think the term Dogfight was used more often in my marching band experiences - I have heard the term being used ever since my early days in Elementary School band.
"Fanfare" or "Introduction," "A Strain," "B Strain," "Interlude," "Trio," (or "C Strain") "Dogfight," "Trio," then "Stinger,""Tag," or "Button" are the terms I most often hear or read about for standard marches. I don't recall ever hearing the term "Break Strain" (but I am not a University schooled musician
)*
Next comes the breakstrain or breakup strain (sometimes called the dogfight or interlude), making it the 4th main melody heard. This strain is loud, intense and marcato. The break strain's purpose can be found in its title. The breakstrain literally breaks a gap between the trio sections. It offers contrast to the usually softer trio melodies, and generates excitement for the listener. Most breakstrains resemble a conversation between the upper woodwinds and the low brass. The final measures of the breakstrain typically contain tension-building chords or chromatic motifs. The breakstrain is usually 16 bars long, but marches such as The Washington Post and The Interlochen Bowl have 8 bar breakstrains. On the Mall has a twelve bar breakstrain as does The Purple Pageant. Hands Across the Sea and The Thunderer have 16 bar breakstrains. Marches with 20 bar breakstrains include, Fairest of the Fair and Invincible Eagle. The Stars and Stripes Forever in fact has a twenty four bar breakstrain
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:43 pm
I'll never forget standing and playing a change of command ceremony, in Berlin, in the mid-Eighties.
The bandmaster was conducting the band during the Inspection, which is sometimes called "The Walkabout", where the various commanders "inspect" the troops.
It became clear that we were going to have to repeat the march we were playing, but the bandmaster didn't want to go back to the top -- he wanted to go back to the dogfight instead.
So while the band was crankin' out some sound, he mimicked a dog barking.
No joke. I was laughing so hard I damn near dropped my horn.
The bandmaster was conducting the band during the Inspection, which is sometimes called "The Walkabout", where the various commanders "inspect" the troops.
It became clear that we were going to have to repeat the march we were playing, but the bandmaster didn't want to go back to the top -- he wanted to go back to the dogfight instead.
So while the band was crankin' out some sound, he mimicked a dog barking.
No joke. I was laughing so hard I damn near dropped my horn.Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:08 pm
I just checked a few marches, the trio was last in each one. I think this a common form, hence the synonym "break strain", it's a break during the piece.
Re: "dogfight"
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:03 am
The roadmap of many traditional marches is approximately: Intro, A, A, B, B, C, C, D, E, E, where E is sometimes a recapitulation of C, and C is the start of the trio. Exceptions abound, of course. But I've always thought of the dogfight as the composer's trick to get the audience going again after the more quiet and lyrical trio's first repeated strain. The call and response emphasizes the call. Not all marches have them, of course.
Rick "for whom all the famous marches run together" Denney
Rick "for whom all the famous marches run together" Denney