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Well, I've finally succumed and will shortly be ordering an F horn after 17 odd years playing Eb. The only problem is which one!!

I've tried a PT10, but found that it was too stuffy below f just below the stave (although it was amazing from that note and up)

I've tried a couple of PT15s and found them to be a little better, but still feels more of a compromise all over.

My favourite F so far is the MW 45s-lz that my teacher has - to me it seems to have a great sound all over, as well as being nice and open down below. The only problem is that it costs a little more than I was hoping to spend.

Are there any other suggestions based on my findings so far? I'd also welcome comments on the 'Firebird'

Thanks in advance,


Simon


BTW - coming from a good Besson 982 EEb with my Contra being the mighty Thor.

If you can make the 45-SLZ work, it'll be worth the extra investment up front. It's your favorite one that you've tried, and it's a risk to buy something you haven't tried. Those are ALL great tubas for the right players, so it's hard to draw too many conclusions here.

If it's an option, you could also wait a little longer to save that money for the SLZ. I think that when possible (and I know it isn't always), it's best to get what you really want, even if that costs more or takes a little longer to get to.

Try a PT-9 if you can find one; it is the older design without the larger bore in the fifth and sixth valves compared to the PT-10. The sound in the mid an upper registers is even more ethereal, and the lower register lacks the hollowness of the 10.

Also, try the Miraphone Petruschka, which will be far easier to find. I've only played the production version once, but it seemed mighty nice--much of the ease of a Yamaha 621 but the sound of a bigger and more interesting F tuba.

Rick "who'd like to try that Miraphone in use, but who can't afford it" Denney

Well, I just bought the Miraphone Petrushka and it is a really nice horn. As for F tubas, you can't ask for any better when it comes to the openness of the low range. I am really working on intonation and fingerings now - a lot of slide pulling and alternate fingerings. But I guess this can be expected when learning a new tuba. I got it for a great price at WWBW, but unfortunately the price has gone up since then. You may want to wait around for the MW 2250 which I understand will be available soon - plus it's cheaper than the Miraphone. I tried a firebird and an SLP when I was at WWBW and the Petrushka was my favorite. The firebird was real nice but I found it kind of stuffy in the low range like a lot of rotary valved German F's. To me, the SLP was below those 2. I imagine that with a lot of practice the low range on a typical F can be worked out - after all there are a ton of players using them with great success.

Stefan

Hello!
What about the MW 2250, YFB-822, PF-125, Petruska?
Hugs
Cleverson

Petrushka!!!!!!! Its brilliant!!

If the 45s-lz is what you've tried and like then that would be my vote. however, being a PROUD owner of a petrushka i would recommend you try one if you have the chance. it's extremely versatile and nimble and, dog-gonnit, just fun to play. good luck!
-Casey

My personal favorite F tuba is the Yamaha YFB 822. It has even response in all registers with a great low register. Its intonation is very good. It produces alot of sound.

Stefan wrote:Well, I just bought the Miraphone Petrushka and it is a really nice horn. As for F tubas, you can't ask for any better when it comes to the openness of the low range. I am really working on intonation and fingerings now - a lot of slide pulling and alternate fingerings. But I guess this can be expected when learning a new tuba. I got it for a great price at WWBW, but unfortunately the price has gone up since then. You may want to wait around for the MW 2250 which I understand will be available soon - plus it's cheaper than the Miraphone. I tried a firebird and an SLP when I was at WWBW and the Petrushka was my favorite. The firebird was real nice but I found it kind of stuffy in the low range like a lot of rotary valved German F's. To me, the SLP was below those 2. I imagine that with a lot of practice the low range on a typical F can be worked out - after all there are a ton of players using them with great success.

Stefan

Slide pulling? Alternate fingerings? Not with mine!!!!!
Almost no effort required than the norm. My tuner reads better on every note than any other tuba i have played.

I really liked the miraphone firebird and the pt15. They were my favorite F horns I tried at ITEC

craig2000 wrote:

Stefan wrote:Well, I just bought the Miraphone Petrushka and it is a really nice horn. As for F tubas, you can't ask for any better when it comes to the openness of the low range. I am really working on intonation and fingerings now - a lot of slide pulling and alternate fingerings. But I guess this can be expected when learning a new tuba. I got it for a great price at WWBW, but unfortunately the price has gone up since then. You may want to wait around for the MW 2250 which I understand will be available soon - plus it's cheaper than the Miraphone. I tried a firebird and an SLP when I was at WWBW and the Petrushka was my favorite. The firebird was real nice but I found it kind of stuffy in the low range like a lot of rotary valved German F's. To me, the SLP was below those 2. I imagine that with a lot of practice the low range on a typical F can be worked out - after all there are a ton of players using them with great success.

Stefan

Slide pulling? Alternate fingerings? Not with mine!!!!!
Almost no effort required than the norm. My tuner reads better on every note than any other tuba i have played.

Now you have me all worried. Notes on the staff requiring the 1st valve need the 1st slide pulled. The A bottom space needs it the most and then the slide gets pushed in as I go higher. Above and below the staff the slide stays all the way in. Low A below the staff needs to be 24&5 but I would have preferred 234. Low Ab below the staff requires 134 - which isn't too bad. Low E right below staff is flat and of course there is nothing I can do with the slide - so I just have to lip it up. I have only had the tuba for 2 weeks so I am still learning. There are definitely a few other intonation quirks that I have not gotten a handle on yet, but these are the major ones.

Stefan

I have found that the Petruschka, for some players, can be mouthpiece sensitive. Some mouthpieces just won't let the horn be as good as it can be. I have tested a lot of different mouthpieces on the Petruschka and the best ones (so far) are the Laskey 30C (or 28C), the Miraphone TU27 and the Kelly Thomas Solo #2 mouthpiece from Terry Warburton.

I'm sure there are others but these ones are the best that I have found so far.

I'll keep working at it.

Roger

I'm astounded. What circumstances bring you to the point where you *know* you need an F (instead of an Eb), but don't know *which* F you need/want?

Thank you all for your responses.

Bloke - living and working in Australia kind of makes it hard to make it have a tuba road trip to the US.

Sloan - I never said that I need an F. However, I do know that I need a smaller tuba than the besson 982 for solos / light work. I just figure that I should use this opportunity to learn another set of fingerings. As to not knowing which F to get, there are not that many different models of tuba available to try in Australia, and only a couple of old pt15's for F tubas in stock in a particular store in Brisbane, so I am limited to trying those of acquaintances and my teacher. Ideally I would have made a trip to Germany to visit factories, but alas don't have the available time or leave.

Bort and Casey - thanks for your words, I'm starting to seriously lean towards the 45 slz.

Thanks all,

Simon

I made a trip to South Bend @2months back, and while I spent the majority of my time on various contrabass models, I did have a chance to sample a few F tubas.

I really admired the sound quality and the ease of playing in the low register on the Petruschka. It almost sounded like it had an Eb tuba sound, but that could've just been me. I did have trouble slotting in the upper register on this model tuba, but that is likely to be just a byproduct of my own inability.

The Firebird is a fine playing tuba. I tried a 6-valve version there, and it played quite well. Reminded me somewhat of a friend's PT-15 that I spent a little time on earlier in the summer. I'd have to have them side by side to tell a difference I guess. This tuba slotted much better on everything north of middle C for me.

My favorite F there was the SLZ. I had never played one before and was really impressed. The old Meinl Weston 45S never really did anything for me, but I came away from this tuba very impressed. Slotted and responded well for me in all registers. I did not have a tuner, but the scale on the instument seemed quite good. I liked the Kodiak as well, but it did not play as well as this particular SLZ.

Keep in mind how lucky we are to have such a wide selection of tubas for whatever we would want to do with them. Even compared to 15 years ago. Take advantage of that and try as many as possible. Best of luck on your search.

If you are going to continue playing the 982, you may well do best to get a smaller rotary Eb, such as the Miraphone Star Light. You are going to cause yourself mental confusion trying to play Eb and F at the same time. I tried both for a while, but decided that it had a detrimental effect on my playing and I had to choose which key to go with as my bass tuba. If you are going to use the F mainly for solo work, then you are better working playing those pieces well, than giving yourself added difficulty of a tuba with different fingerings, response and intonation.

Your choice, but another angle to consider.

You are more than welcome to come to Adelaide and try my Rudy 6 Valve 5/4 F and a YFB-822 that work has. The Rudy was by far my favourite F when I visited both the MW & Rudy factories back in 2008. The 822 is a very 'point & shoot' F and can easily take the place of an EEb. I generally use it for quintet. It just doesn't have that wonderful german f sound.

Let me know if I can help you in anyway. I owe you one!

Cheers

Roger Lewis wrote:I have found that the Petruschka, for some players, can be mouthpiece sensitive. Some mouthpieces just won't let the horn be as good as it can be. I have tested a lot of different mouthpieces on the Petruschka and the best ones (so far) are the Laskey 30C (or 28C), the Miraphone TU27 and the Kelly Thomas Solo #2 mouthpiece from Terry Warburton.

I'm sure there are others but these ones are the best that I have found so far.

I'll keep working at it.

Roger

Hi Roger, hope you are well. Thats really interesting to hear. When talking about intonation issues with the petrushka I dont find it any different from any other instrument, even the EEb. Im not saying there are NO issues but no more than normal. I also think we Brits tend to use lip or alternate valves more than slide pulling to correct these problems. However I am interested in what you say about the mouthpiece making the horn as good as it can be. How did you find the perantucci 65? Thats what I have mainly been using.
Cheers

EEb with an f tuba sound. IMHO better than all f tubas. Norwegian Star. I sold my YFB-822S for one. And I tried firebird and petroushka both very good, but each F tuba has it's issues. Finger patterns for most orchestral literature lay better on EEb for me. F is not your only option

tubaspmcc wrote:Thank you all for your responses.

Bloke - living and working in Australia kind of makes it hard to make it have a tuba road trip to the US.

It's too bad you are so far away Vince has a few really nice F tubas for sale @ TE. I played on some a while back and that silver MW 45SLP is incredible!! I think it's one of the better early versions. Mouthpipe/leadpipe is "lifted" to make it respond even better. Gotta say the horn is very responsive and resonant with good intonation. Great condition. Sound is a bit fatter than the rotary F's, but still with that typical German F color and vibrancy. It's one of those tubas that you can make sound like a typical F or, with the right mouthpiece and sound concept, sound like an Eb or small CC. One of the finest F tubas I've played