The British F tuba

[imperialbari]

I have tried whatever to make that Klemperer-Bydlo link work. In vain as the format is said to be wrong. And I can’t trace it with search engines. Would somebody please provide it in its proper form fenced by the URL brackets?

Klaus

[Andrew]

Here's the Bydlo clip again, Klaus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Ze4v3T ... re=related" target="_blank

The euph player is the Philharmonia's wonderful American bass trombonist 1958-88 Ray Premu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Premru" target="_blank. He's playing the norm of euphoniums throughout the Brit sphere of influence - a B&H Imperial 4-v comp - for the long period before the Sovereigns were launched in the 1980s

Tug Wilson's close-up is from 1:46 and clearly shows a tuba of the 'Barlow' pattern (3 + 2). I'm currently trying to clarify whether this Barlow F tuba - serial number 124581 - is indeed the same one being exhibited in the Horniman museum http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ucj/ucjg4048qfr_s.jpg" target="_blank. It is said to be a superb instrument and might even be worth copying. I've been given the Horniman Barlow's measurements (in cms)......

0 14.3 mouthpiece receiver
40 13.2 minimum
295 17.9 1st valve entry
505 18.8 4th valve entry
605 18.8 5th valve exit
735 18.8 main tuning-slide proximal outer
795 18.8 main tuning-slide proximal eps
1025 22.8 main tuning-slide distal eps
1083 22.8 main tuning-slide distal outer
1305 28.6 ferrule proximal
1339 29.8 ferrule distal
1484 34
1584 37.2
1619 37.8
1776 43.4
1996 50.4
2183 59.5
2221 60.4
2266 62.1
2331 64.3 ferrule proximal
2361 66.2 ferrule distal
2841 91.6 ferrule proximal
2872 ferrule distal
3302 157
3552 430 bell end

Andrew

[imperialbari]

Thank you very much for the link!

The total shots in this video show 3 trombones sitting up back right with the euphonium player on the right flank. I don’t see a tuba player. Does that indicated that the euphonium played the tuba part all through this performance of Ravel’s setting of Pictures?

Klaus

[Andrew]

Klaus, the Bydlo clip should last for 2:32. The tuba shot starts from 1:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Ze4v3T ... re=related" target="_blank

[imperialbari]

Thanks, I found out about where my mistake occurred, and I saw the tuba this time.

Actually I had taken the tutti tuba for being the euphonium. But the euphonium really was played by the bass trombonist. Here in DK it usually is the 1st trombonist who does the solo on a euphonium. When our RSO did pictures under Celibidache around 1973, the first trombone played Bydlo on a Conn 24I.

Klaus

[Rick Denney]

No study of British F tubas should be attempted without first consulting Cliff Bevan. Bevan has attempted to inventory both the Barlow-style orchestral F's and the compensating style instruments, and the inventory as it stood several years ago is in the second edition of his book, The Tuba Family, which is published by Piccolo Press.

The instrument used by Catelinet for the premiere of the Vaughan Williams was the compensating style. Jacobs used a similar instrument when he recorded the Vaughan Williams. Jay Rozen used to own one of these, and I had an opportunity to blow a few notes on his, but it was before I was prepared to make judgments of F tubas. Last time Jay and I talked, he was playing a Yamaha 621 and I don't know what happened to the Besson.

(Speaking of the Yamaha, I would bet that it is the most similar instrument to an early Besson orchestral F of any instrument currently on the market.)

There is a probably apocryphal story that Fletcher, when asked why he didn't play an "orchestral F" instead of his "band EEb", his response was, "because I haven't bloody got one, have I?" I doubt that it's true but I really hope that it is.

There is a picture in Bevan's first edition, published by Scriveners in 1978, of George Wall playing a Barlow F tuba in his youth. There is also a picture of him some years later, perhaps in the 70's, playing a large Alexander Kaiser.

There, that's my core dump on the subject, heh.

Rick "suggesting a good literature search and some correspondence" Denney

[Art Hovey]

Just curious: Does anyone know how the five valves were tuned on the Barlow tuba?
Was the 5th a "long whole-step", or a "two whole-step", or something else?
Was the 4th valve a "C" or a Db?
I could be wrong, but don't recall seeing that information in Bevan's book.

[J.c. Sherman]

I'll second the recommendation to consult with Mr. Bevan. He is the recognized authority on the subject, and it's his home turf to boot.

Also, contact Howard Johnson. He has a remarkable Hawkes 3+1 Compensating F, which may be the finest tuba ever constructed, ever. I was given the wonderful opportunity to try it and when I did, my companions' eyes all bulged out - one person told me "you need that tuba!" At any rate, it is quite old, restored, and not on the Barlow template.

Documenting the British F should also take into account the use and transition from it's predecessors, the Euphonium and the Ophicleide. Like France, the English didn't move to the tuba as quickly as other countries. Answering "why" will give you clues as to why the F and Eb didn't cross paths often...

Ray Premru was an excellent valve player; he had a remarkable Bach bass trumpet as well.

J.c.S.

[Jeff Miller]

You ought to talk to Mike Johnson and George Wall. While researching the 6-valve French c tuba earlier this year, I had several really interesting discussions with Mike and George relating to the Barlow f tubas and their players. Design-wise, the Barlow tubas were related to the French saxhorns (including the traditional French c), and date back to the 5 valve f-tuba which Hans Richter commissioned for his English orchestra in the late 1800's.

I believe Mike told me that this first British f tuba was made by a French saxhorn manufacturor, and had the same valve fingering system found on French saxhorns/tubas of that period (3rd valve = 2 whole tones and 5th valve = P5) but you'd want to check that with him.

Also, try speaking to Mark Carter of Mr Tuba in Wales; I seem to remember speaking to him about it as well.

You can PM if you want to discuss it any more.

Jeff

[J.c. Sherman]

Neptune, don't you own a Barlow F converted to 3+1 Compensating?

Just listened to all 15 clips of the Pictures. It's surreal to hear and see my teacher again and so young. Premru was a master. I'm also astounded at the great tuba playing!

J.c.S.

[imperialbari]

Bevan, at least in his 1st edition, writes that some of the Barlow’s had their valve lay-out changed. But I never heard that any of them became equipped with a compensating valve system.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

Neptune has Fletch's detachable bell F beast, which (IIRC) had a valve-ectomy and had a besson set installed. This is just my memory talking, which is faulty as hell.

J.c.S.

[imperialbari]

Jonathan for a short period owned a compensating F tuba modified on behalf of John Fletcher to have a 19" bell from the olde Imperial or New Standard BBb tubas. I cannot find the postings by Jonathan even if I seem to have dated them to about a year ago from some 3rd party private correspondence of mine.

While searching my disk for reference I found this link to an important older posting on the Barlow tubas:

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jun2003 ... 38833.html

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Here is link to the thread about the John Fletcher Boosey & Co F I owned (for a lamentably short time) -
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31673

[Mike-Johnson-Custom]

Ha!
I've just 'rejoined' Tubanet and found this page!!
I could take ages putting a few legends straight but...
Besson Built the Barlow F Tubas most of us know. But they also made at least one with a compensating valve set.
For those of you on FaceBook there are three pages you might find interesting.
John Fletcher Tuba Virtuoso https://www.facebook.com/groups/58131164250/
Stuart Roebuck (Stuart was the last British Tuba player using a Barlow regularly https://www.facebook.com/groups/stuartroebuck/
Harry Barlow https://www.facebook.com/groups/stuartroebuck/

[Mike-Johnson-Custom]

That particular F used to belong to the Royal Northern College of Music only they never sold it...........

[Mike-Johnson-Custom]

That particular F used to belong to the Royal Northern College of Music only they never sold it...........

I bought it on eBay from a seller in the UK who kindly organized having it restored and re-lacquered by Besson before shipping it to me.

http://www.rugs-n-relics.com/Brass/tuba ... -tuba.html

I have no doubt on the current owner being honest.
My comment is that some people think its ok to sell stuff that's not theirs.