TubeNet

I'd suggest taking lessons

We've all seen it, and probably replied with that statement, MANY times.

What a lame piece of advice when someone is asking for some help, regardless if they have lessons or not.

That is all.

Any way we can pin this thread to the top? This seems like the most common thing said on this board...

I'm available for lessons in Northern New Jersey.

: )
Frank Ortega
frankonj@aol.com" target="_blank

I don't think it is lame at all. Is it not conceivable that some of the problems that are presented on this board would be best handled in a one on one diagnosis by a professional? Are you really so sure of the virtue of the advice offered on an open internet forum that you would call some of that advice i.e. 'Go get some lessons' lame? While it is true that some members of this board are very generous with their knowledge, time, and experiences in answering questions on this board do you really think that this board represents the collective knowledge available about all things tuba and music?

I don't mean to be rude, but while this board is a reasonable place to start looking for information it should in no way represent the finality and authority for information especially when compared to the knowledge, education, and experience of a dedicated teacher sitting by the side of a student. A lot of the information/advice on this board is very valuable, given by people who know. A lot of it is not. And I would dare say that most people who are giving information that is not so reliable have no idea that what they're offering may be not only not helpful or erroneous but downright unhelpful given their 1. lack of knowledge about the subject in general, or 2. Their lack of knowledge about the specifics of the seeker of information's actual condition.

Sean has tried to help matters by the 'professional' designation but that has not stopped people without that designation from offering excellent advice, and some people with that designation from offering advice that is not so excellent. Even my estimation of that advice is subject to my own opinions, knowledge and experience. My point is that to call 'lame' the suggestion that people look for one on one advice from a professional to solve their problem, is exactly the type of advice that is unhelpful, but unfortunately representative of many of the things that are said on this board. From time to time you'll see posts by 'uber' professionals, professionals with known reputations who operate at the highest levels of our craft. I would consider them the exception to the questionable advice rule, but even they are best going to be able to fix a problem when sitting next to you.

I have seen discussions concluded on this board by a person of 'authority' (they're often given communal authority because they post a lot and offer thoroughly opinionated, rhetorically patronizing and sometimes sound advise), that ends the discussion with sub-par, misleading or incorrect information. While there is certainly no guarantee that you'll get perfectly sound instruction from a private teacher, there are certain situations that demand the attention of a private teacher, and the very best advice is to stop listening to the conjecture and guessing of the people who are responding to a bulletin board post and go and find a teacher who can diagnose and treat a given problem with accuracy. This bbs is an invaluable part of our community but it would be well for everyone to understand what it is and what it is not. Remember you get what you pay for, how much do you pay for the advice on tubenet?

Again, just so no one gets put out by this, there are plenty of people on here who know a lot about the world of the tuba, and who are imminently qualified to offer their knowledge, (I would highly recommend private lessons with many of them) but to call the suggestion, that there may be situations that require a private teacher, lame, is well...lame.

Monstertuba wrote:I don't think it is lame at all. Is it not conceivable that some of the problems that are presented on this board would be best handled in a one on one diagnosis by a professional?

I am in no way suggesting that asking a "professional" (the professional designation - there are many people offering lessons in the "real world" whom I HARDLY consider experts in the matter) would not be the best solution. I am merely commenting on the uselessness of constantly responding to a query with "ask a teacher" or "take lessons".

Are we to assume that every person who asks a technical question about their playing is an idiot and NEVER even considered to ask someone who could witness their playing? Couldn't a person be usisng this forum to supplement what knowledge they are already receiving (or cannot receive)? Those who do not currently take lessons receive no benefit to "take lessons" sorts of comments. There may be many reasons someone does not take lessons (or can not take lessons) so why deny some free advice? They surely are not forced to take the advice.

And just to make another point, this is a "public" forum. I spend a lot of my tubenet time reading what members have to say in regards to issues players are having. I think it is a great way to hear different opinions or learn different approaches to fixing aspects of our playing. By giving the "cop-out" response, everyone is denied some knowledge. It also offers an opportunity for someone to, possibly, realize their own thought may be wrong.

When people say "ask a teacher" or start to say that "only a teacher can see you and evaluate your playing the best", they do mean it. And it IS true. ABSOLUTELY true. BUT, to say it thinking you are being noble and "saving" the person who asked the question from a misdiagnosis, is a little silly. There is still a benefit to hearing other peoples thoughts. No one HAS to agree with the answer or take the advice as fact.

Many people will write "ask a teacher" and then follow up with their own advice. Now, THAT, I approve of. I am referring to when someone posts "go ask a teacher" and leaves it at that.

Usually I try to give a recommendation or some sort of advice - but this can be like pi$$ing into the wind if the problem the OP has is different from how I interpret his wording. I am always afraid that my advice will be taken the wrong way and actually cause harm rather than help.

I guess I have my own hypocritical oath.

Roger

This is the exact thing that separates tubenet from the other forums/message boards in the brass world.

I see it as a good thing.

The vast majority of these forums are endless rants by people touting their "style" of embouchure, teaching, learning, heck---anything. They spend hours advocating what they do and providing blind input and advice for people they have never seen or heard.

You just don't get that kind of idiotic, asinine, blind advice on here. If anything, it definitely displays the level of intelligence by most of the virtuosos on our instrument. Yes, I know we are still the forum with the beer posts, food posts, and german girls... but, alas, we at least put playing advice in context online---unlike everyone else.

Sam Burtis found out the hard way, you can't come in here and blindly tell people to change their playing, ignore their teachers, and make a lesson/gameplan for their playing, over the text of a web forum alone.

Who Dat, Sam Burtis anyhow?

tbn.al wrote:Who Dat, Sam Burtis anyhow?

Long story short, Sam got his feelings hurt because he was talking down to the pros in our forum who refused to do the blind advice over a forum thing.

Then he tried to sell his workshops in here, and decided to have an argument with Chisham, himself.


http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?PHPS ... #msg659745" target="_blank

Just as a little sideline to all of this...after 7 pages, a couple of thousand views, 20 really interested posters and basically two hostile, stick-in-the-mud opponents, the lovely people who run TubeNet canned this topic there. Without even the courtesy of a notice.

That site makes the stiff old Online Trombone Journal look like a den of anarchists.

So it goes.

Gotta have dinosaurs as well as the new, I suppose.

Later...

S.

He still bashes and rambles about Tubenet in his "open horn" forum and on the trombone sites.

Many people here will offer thoughts, along with the dreaded phrase...

but that's because they are being realistic. Music is an aural medium, and there ain't no substitute for a set of independent, on-site ears. If it is just words you want, go to a writing forum. Ideas, go to a philosophy forum. But don't be surprised if people who know the difference tell you to get a reality check along with the benefit of their experience.

windshieldbug wrote: But don't be surprised if people who know the difference tell you to get a reality check along with the benefit of their experience.

This is exactly what I hope for. "Go get a teacher" is only part of the solution. What I enjoy about tubenet is that folks are willing to share their thought but are also excellent to point out that you need a witnessed opinion. I just HATE when the "only" offered solution is, as you say...the dreaded phrase.

You know, this is really off the wall. When people need legal advice, the best advice is to go see a lawyer, a professional in the legal field. When people have an ailment, the best advice is to go see a health care professional who specializes in the ailment. So why is everybody getting upset over the best advice that can be given: when you have an issue with playing, go get some lessons; in other words, go see a professional who can correctly diagnose the issue and get the player on the way.

I am very, very proud of this forum, especially the TNFJ, for having the circumspection and humility to actually defer to a professional in the field who can give the proper face time to the issue. None of us ever forget that opinions are like assholes and tuba bells: we all have at least one of each. And just like our function in the ensemble(s) we all play in respectively, we're not bashful about offering up the point of view. But since we all know the value of a good foundation, we're not shy about suggesting lessons from a competent teacher, professor or other professional, either.

The reference to search the archives possibly is more frequent than the urging to get a teacher.

No teacher was able to teach me lip trills. Then once in a brass band I watched a cornet player doing lip trills during warm up. After that I have never had problems doing lip trills myself.

I very soon could get available for lessons.

If somebody really good would come and teach me for free.

Klaus

iiipopes wrote:You know, this is really off the wall. When people need legal advice, the best advice is to go see a lawyer, a professional in the legal field. When people have an ailment, the best advice is to go see a health care professional who specializes in the ailment

Doesn't it depend on the question being asked? If my finger hurts do I need to go see a Dr.? Not necessarily. There are many questions that can be answered by the wealth of knowledge tubenet provides. And even further, there is discrepancy between what professionals may offer anyway. Not everything is cut and dry, and to have a resource that can offer many different points of view is a great advantage to a player.

Again, this is the only point I am raising with the topic. Many members here have excellent responses; offering advice and also suggesting a to see a teacher. Others say "get a teacher" and leave it at that. Why not share? It could hurt...it could not hurt. Plus, I like seeing what other people do or reading what works/doesn't work. It's invaluable as a tuba player and a teacher to see different points of view.

The reference to search the archives possibly is more frequent than the urging to get a teacher.

I AGREE!! - Though, the search isn't always friendly...it can be tough to find items. Plus, many of us like to retype our thoughts.

djwesp wrote: Yes, I know we are still the forum with the beer posts, food posts, and german girls...

Not very many of late.

This being OCTOBER, I'm thinking it's high time for some new posts of beer, brats and German girls!

Y'know. . . sometimes the most off-the-wall replies (note: not orig post) generate the most interesting discussions. Without a lot of background, it's difficult to tell the level of the inquirer or the appropriateness of professional or nonprofessional advice. IMO, folks ask and respond pretty informally on this EXCELLENT BB.

tuben, is there website from which one could build a 3 or 4 pipe organ?

14 NEW MOUTHPIECES?

sailn2ba wrote:... is there website from which one could build a 3 or 4 pipe organ?

Just buy a bagpipe.

K

I am in my third year of taking lessons and those have brought me nothing but good but so has reading this forum. Sometimes it takes the ideas from lessons, what you read here and what you discover on your own to solve problems. Maybe you could first ask "Do you have a teacher? What has he said?" That could potentially lead to a better discussion.

How much for a lesson with her?

My tuba's sound is thin and it plays out of tune. My band director tells me I have a World Class Sound, so it must be the tuba. I'm thinking of buying a Meinl-Weston 6450, or maybe a Monette mouthpiece, because my Miraphone 186 really sucks. So, what should I do? I need to solve this problem by next week--I'm playing the von Williams concerto next week at solo contest, and when I bought the music today my tuba couldn't make all the notes.

Fred "just some high-school kid who wandered into Tubenet, naive and credulous, and easily damaged by college sophomores fresh from hearing the latest version of 'what Jake said' from their profs" Fryburger

I see that lots of people here are having trouble dealing with questions. This is a learned skill that
can be acquired over time.

I suggest lessons.