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Well, since nobody else has posted about it, I might as well open up the can o' worms.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/05/michig ... l?hpt=Sbin

Detroit Symphony goes on strike to protest 33% pay cut. Cut proposed by management lowered base from $105k to $70k with increases in the 2nd and 3rd years. Cut proposed by musicians was 22%.

I'd be mad as hell if someone wanted to cut my pay by a third. But there was a line from one of the musicians that really got under my skin:

Haden McKay, a cellist with the DSO, said the board also wants pension and benefit cuts.

The quality of the orchestra would suffer with cuts of this magnitude, McKay said, adding it would have a tough time recruiting new members.

That really bugs me. I mean, if I had the ability to play in that orchestra, and won the audition and was offered a paltry $70k a year to do it, does any sane person think I'd really turn it down? This cellist is giving the impression that you can't seat a world-class orchestra for $70k a head, and that's wrong.

Now, I have no issue with the musicians taking umbrage at a significant pay cut. That is major suckage for anyone. But let's be realistic: if the organization can't survive at current salaries, and assuming that this is a cut of last resort, the musicians will be out of a job and the open seats around the rest of the orchestra world are few and far between. And VERY few of them pay $70k.

They can and will re-negotiate once the economy rebounds, and they know it. Yeah, they have to face reality, just like professionals of so many other fields have had to. They are worth what they are being paid, but would they rather face the unemployment line? Or even no pay with the proposed strike?

This is the result of what some might call a "market correction".

While I'm sure many of us would drop whatever job we have at the drop of a hat to play in an orchestra for $70K, I still feel for the folks who are on the short end of the stick.

Everybody's got a mortgage. Sad news for those involved.

That stinks, and I hope they can figure it out soon.

I agree too, even in "these tough economic times" (<-- hate that phrase), a 33% pay cut is too hard to take. Yeah, I could live with 33% less salary for a while, and I'm fortunate to be able to do so. But soon as that happens, I'm sure as hell going to start looking for a new job.

bort hit the nail on the head.

It's not about whether you can find players to play at 70k.

It's about sustaining a quality organization. If your top players leave for better paying jobs, the quality will suffer. Without quality... good luck sustaining the organization financially.

Replacing quality musicians isn't as easy as just having another audition.

knuxie wrote:Here's my thinking on this.

Is the cost of living in that area going to take a 33% cut as well? If so, there's no reason to really strike.

Is management taking a 33% pay cut? If so, there's no reason to strike.

Ken F.

Cost of living took a 78% fall. Only 10% of the entire population of the metroplex makes that much money for an entire family in a year. (this is using the smallest wage a player makes there).

Only one in 1,115 people there make as much as the lowest paid musician in the orchestra.

The musicians also make more money than the average salary for these professions in Detroit:

1.Mechanical Engineer.
2.RN
3.Software Engineer.
4.Doctoral level primary school teacher.

Not sure if they are in a similar situation, but the Baltimore Symphony was in some big trouble a few years ago. A little fuzzy on the details, but I think they ended up selling the symphony hall, making money to pay down/off their debts, and now lease the building from the new owners. A bit radical, but seems to be working.

As someone that took a cut in pay 3 years ago to keep a job, they should ask themselves the same question I did:

"is there anyone lined up to pay me what I was making before the pay cut?"

If the answer is "yes", go there.
If the answer is "no", then tell the boss "see you tomorrow"

No different than a business owner that is having a down year. It is what it is.

Tubaryan "who is currently being paid more now than before the pay cut" 12

I'm sorry, but in a state that has been financially rocked in recent years, they should be thankful they still are making anything at all.

rascaljim wrote:Without quality... good luck sustaining the organization financially.

This just isn't true. Just ask China.

Sad news--FYI-mark

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... ns-strike/" target="_blank

Haden McKay wrote:Haden McKay, a cellist with the DSO, said the board also wants pension and benefit cuts.

The quality of the orchestra would suffer with cuts of this magnitude, McKay said, adding it would have a tough time recruiting new members.

MileMarkerZero wrote:Well, since nobody else has posted about it, I might as well open up the can o' worms.

That really bugs me. I mean, if I had the ability to play in that orchestra, and won the audition and was offered a paltry $70k a year to do it, does any sane person think I'd really turn it down? This cellist is giving the impression that you can't seat a world-class orchestra for $70k a head, and that's wrong.

Here is a thought:

Take the graduating class at Juilliard (or another feeder school) and offer them each $70,000 per year. Would this equal a world-class quality orchestra? Do you think they would sign up?

bloke wrote:
The Detroit principal horn player (who is known to be an extraordinarily talented and extremely formidable player), reportedly auditioned for a 3rd horn spot in the Dallas Symphony a couple of weeks ago. That position was, however, won by a 3rd horn player from the Fort Worth Symphony.

Karl Pituch did not attend our 3rd horn audition.

If I had EVER been offered a $70,000.00 a year job (doing ANYTHING), I would have taken it in a heartbeat! While our training as muscians and 'pedagogists' came at a high price in practice and investment in instruments; there are very, very few places in the US where $70K won't let you lead a comfortable life. OK, rip my throat out, now.

Hi-
I find it interesting that the management wants help from the musicians in raising money--isn't management PAID to do that? And how about the Music Director? The title is M.D., not just conductor---which means that the individual needs to go out in the community and visit the power people to help in fund raising. Yet, in Detroit's case, everything is the musician's fault--you must accept pay cuts, benefit cuts, or we'll replace you--in other words, our way or the highway. How come management and the M.D. are off the hook? And what kind of BOD do they have? Sounds pretty weak to me--only $19M in an endowment fund in a large city--that is what the BOD needs to work on. The musician's job is to perform at a high standard-period--sounds like the management, M.D., and the BOD need to also perform at a high standard or they are the ones who need replacing....the bosses usual line of 'take it or leave it' but when it comes to management/M.D., and/or the BOD, it is the 'Industry Standard' line...

mark

I find nothing but sympathy for the Detroit Symphony orchestra musicians and nothing but ill will for the Detroit Symphony management. They turned down offers of help from their employees (as have several other orchestras) and blithely guided the DSO into this near-financial disaster. Now they ask the musicians to shoulder the burden of their malfeasence.

The musicians and the audience of the DSO deserve better management. My fear is that instead of learning from this, other orchestra boards are following the same path.

I'm sorry. Detroit needs to suck it up and go back to work. If they are SOOOOO good that they can't take the terms management wants, then they should go work somewhere else. BUT, since they CAN'T do that as there are no jobs, they need to go to work and get their paycheck for doing their jobs. My heart doesn't go out to anyone unless they are within a few years of retirement. The guys that have put in their time are going to get screwed over by the younger folks that think they walk on water because they can blow hot air through a tube!

For those of you that have pointed out that college kids would jump at this job, and those of you that have pointed out how "quality would suffer", think about this. The New World Symphony just opened, or is about to open, their new hall on Miami Beach. Those musicians are paid about $20,000 a year and are provided housing during the season. They New World Symphony is doing great! The Florida Philharmonic no longer exists.

Quit yer bitch'n Detroit and go back to work!

Flame away....I won't care!

snorlax wrote:
Jim "Has anyone ever had a professor nicknamed Snorlax?" Williams

Yes, that's quite a common name on some planets.

king2ba wrote:I'm sorry. Detroit needs to suck it up and go back to work. If they are SOOOOO good that they can't take the terms management wants, then they should go work somewhere else. BUT, since they CAN'T do that as there are no jobs, they need to go to work and get their paycheck for doing their jobs. My heart doesn't go out to anyone unless they are within a few years of retirement. The guys that have put in their time are going to get screwed over by the younger folks that think they walk on water because they can blow hot air through a tube!

For those of you that have pointed out that college kids would jump at this job, and those of you that have pointed out how "quality would suffer", think about this. The New World Symphony just opened, or is about to open, their new hall on Miami Beach. Those musicians are paid about $20,000 a year and are provided housing during the season. They New World Symphony is doing great! The Florida Philharmonic no longer exists.

Quit yer bitch'n Detroit and go back to work!

Flame away....I won't care!

I must agree with king2ba--the reality is there are more qualified musicians in the job market than there are positions--that means every single member of the DSO can be replaced. They live and work in a city that has close to a 50% unemployment rate and have been offered a based salary of $80,200--time to wake up DSO and deal with reality.

JJ

The excellent American music writer, Greg Sandow, has been discussing this on his website:

http://www.artsjournal.com/sandow

The problem in the U.K. is that the administrators and composers are still suspicious of the audience and refuse to make the effort. Last week I read an article about a composer in residence with one of our orchestras, who said he refused to be "popularist", and "would not pander to the audience". When this patronising attitude changes, maybe the orchestras will become relevant again.