"new style" Conn 20K lower mouthpipe bracing system

[imperialbari]

Lower leadpipe.jpg

Handgrip area.jpg

Valve section.jpg

Not sure these are right, but apparently they were the closest available in my galleries.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

From a long gone web announcement.

[SousaSaver]

Thanks for the update about the pics. It's nice that someone has a good archive.

[Dan Schultz]

Looks like The Cyborg had some left-over King parts! Looks like they are still using the original Conn neck, though.

NOTE to older Conn sousa owners.... do not order a neck or bits for your sousa unless you specify that it be for a 20K. Otherwise, you're gonna get King parts that won't work.

[TUbajohn20J]

I hate that bracing style. It is so flimly compared to the Elkhart style long "stick" braces. I broke mine 3 times last year and it eventually crushed and cracked the leadpipe. Our Elkhart sousas never have that problem.

[Dan Schultz]

I hate that bracing style. It is so flimly compared to the Elkhart style long "stick" braces. I broke mine 3 times last year and it eventually crushed and cracked the leadpipe. Our Elkhart sousas never have that problem.

Ditto! This setup won't hold up to the rigors of high school (or college) marching band.

[iiipopes]

It depends on the lateral design of the tubing. With the King tubing doing the "down and back" main tuning slide before the block, if the brace gets stressed, it has a much longer length of tubing to distribute that stress than on the short, "straight-in" Conn valve block. Yes, I can see how it would do just fine on a King, but on a Conn it needs the sturdier braces.

[SousaSaver]

I don't know how they produce them, but Ed Strege sells replacement Elkhart Conn Sousa mouth pipe braces. I haven't had a chance to use one of his braces yet, but I will probably order a few soon to try out. In the past if I have to replace one I generally use a similar diameter brass rod and bend it to fit. I haven't ever had a problem with one.

King at one time used 2 separate "L" shaped braces on either side of the mouth pipe soldered into flanges, and these sometimes break. When they do, I generally replace them with the more modern half-circle bracing. I do this because in my opinion, it is going to be a bit stronger in the long term.

4/ PLENTY (thousands) of agreed-by-us-to-be-superior Elkhart cast brace systems have been utterly defeated by "stoo'unts".

...and Bloke is right again. I have a 60's era 20K waiting in line to be repaired right now that has one of mouth pipe braces broken and a collapsed mouth pipe.

[toobagrowl]

King at one time used 2 separate "L" shaped braces on either side of the mouth pipe soldered into flanges, and these sometimes break. When they do, I generally replace them with the more modern half-circle bracing. I do this because in my opinion, it is going to be a bit stronger in the long term.

The older H.N. White King souzys have those fancier curved "S" braces for the mouthpipe. They are more attractive but also more fragile. Way back when I was in high school, one of the souzy players broke one of those braces on the old King. Of course he bent and creased the mouthpipes too (upper detachable gooseneck AND the lower-attached-to-main-tuning-slide-mouthpipe). I think he did this twice He was just too rough with the horns and I had a special nickname for him: Destroyer.
The later/newer King souzys have that half circle loop attached to the mouthpipe. 3 of my old high school's Kings had this bracing and those souzys never had any issues with their bracing.

H. N. White King:
http://cgi.ebay.com/KING-22-BELL-Eb-SO ... et="_blank

Regular King:
http://cgi.ebay.com/KING-SATIN-SILVER- ... et="_blank

Do the newer Conn and King souzys use the same half-circle mouthpipe bracing?

[TUbajohn20J]

Do the newer Conn and King souzys use the same half-circle mouthpipe bracing?

I don't think so. The newer Kings we have have a sort of square styled ring bracing...while the 20K's have the half circle.

[TUbajohn20J]

I forgot some of them also have a half circle style bracing...but it is smaller in diameter than the ones on the 20K's.

[Dan Schultz]

..... Do the newer Conn and King souzys use the same half-circle mouthpipe bracing?

Except for the 20K the new Conn sousas ARE Kings. The King parts seem to be migrating into the 20K, too.

[SousaSaver]

On the new style 20K, has anyone ever encountered a problem with the snap in metal washer that clips onto the valve stem? I think that this is intended to replace a tall alignment cork. Has anyone ever had an issue with this falling off?

Also, has anyone ever retro-fitted the new style 20K with old style bracing?

[toobagrowl]

..... Do the newer Conn and King souzys use the same half-circle mouthpipe bracing?

Except for the 20K the new Conn sousas ARE Kings. The King parts seem to be migrating into the 20K, too.

I wondered about that. I remember almost 15 years ago in H.S. seeing what I thought were King souzys from other bands at competitions only to read "Conn" on the bells closer up. These horns were exactly like the 3 UMI Kings we had, only difference was the name on the bell. The other 2 Kings we had were older H. N. White Kings with the fancier "S" bracing on the mouthpipe. One of them was a King "Giant" and I played on that one most of the time All were silver plated.
I do think the small half-circle bracing is quite durable on those UMI Kings and Conns. The Conn 20K looks to have a slightly different and more fragile "loop/big circle" bracing.

Now we can get into "pre-1985 old style" and "new style" upper mouthpipes/goosenecks

[tubbba]

Regular King:
http://cgi.ebay.com/KING-SATIN-SILVER- ... et="_blank

I wouldn't buy this horn. It apparently has a "satan finish". While I'm not exactly sure what that entails, I'm pretty sure I don't want it.

[imperialbari]

It apparently has a "satan finish".

Does that make it a hell-icon?

[TUbajohn20J]

I wouldn't buy this horn. It apparently has a "satan finish". While I'm not exactly sure what that entails, I'm pretty sure I don't want it.

A SATIN finish horn means it was either sand blasted or bead blasted to get the rough looking finish, and then silver plated or laquered. This is my favorite kind of finish on horns because first of all, it just looks good, and is very easy to take care of...in my opinion. This finish was popular on older horns but some makers still offer it.

[Bandmaster]

I have a question for you repair gurus... when replacing the 20K leadpipe crook (the receiver that bends around the tuning slide and goes into the 1st valve casing), do you have to trim the new factory replacement crook to the proper length or does it come the correct length from the supplier? The youth band I teach has two 20K where someone replaced these crooks and the gooseneck and bits no longer line up properly, to far away from your mouth, and the horns both play a little flat. After looking the two 20Ks that they own that still have the original crooks, I was thinking if these crooks were shortened it would solve both problems. What do you think?

[SousaSaver]

The angle the mouth pipe is installed could be an issue. Are the students using 2 bits with the neck?