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Greetings all,

Despite frequent cleaning and oiling, my 822 valves are exceedingly tight. The first valve in particular is so tight that it literally needs mild force (twisting and finagling) to get it into the casing. Does anyone have any suggestions? I originally used Al Cass on it and switched to Blue Juice several months ago. The valves have been close for as long as I've owned the instrument and just don't feel very "free" to me.

Thanks for your suggestions,

Himes

Hi
My valves are fairly lightweight, I use oil "Fast"
Hug

That's a Yamaha thing
But seriously; it is. Yamaha has closer tolerances than anyone else. And in some cases, it's too tight. If you want some wiggle room in there, take it to a great tech, and have them work the issue out for you.

Bloke,

This seems to be absolutely correct. Thank you for clarifying the cause of this issue. I am in a relative "tuba wasteland." Is this, in your professional opinion, something I could trust an experienced instrument (but not tuba specific) repair person to attempt? How might they attempt to push this back out?

Thanks again,

Himes

Beneath the sign that bloke said ...

Bloke and others will probably flame me for this, but it works exceedingly well. I have an 822, and the valves were tight. I lapped them myself, using a variable speed electric drill and an ultra fine-grit automotive paint polishing compound called "Finesse It". That was recommended to me by a brass repairman; I didn't just go to AutoZone and ask the counterman.

The valves work like glass. I can play The Carnival of Venice on that horn, and there are few pieces that require the valves to move faster.

If anyone wants more details on the process, email me and I will answer offline.

SK

Regarding oil:
I tried using Blue Juice on my YFB-822, and the valves were sometimes slow to return. I tried Yamaha valve oil, and the valves worked quite well.

The Yamaha valve oil seems similar to the Al Cass Fast oil. Blue Juice is much thinner. I still use Blue juice inside my rotary tubas.

skeath wrote:Bloke and others will probably flame me for this, but it works exceedingly well. I have an 822, and the valves were tight. I lapped them myself, using a variable speed electric drill and an ultra fine-grit automotive paint polishing compound called "Finesse It". That was recommended to me by a brass repairman; I didn't just go to AutoZone and ask the counterman.

The valves work like glass. I can play The Carnival of Venice on that horn, and there are few pieces that require the valves to move faster.

If anyone wants more details on the process, email me and I will answer offline.

SK

That isn't a bad solution, but I wouldn't suggest using machines of any kind for that. In my opinion, I would recommend doing a task like this by hand. Bloke's suggestion about lava soap is good.

Finess it is made by 3M and can be used for polishing out varnish on fine furniture to auto paint. It is made for auto paint work. You need to be careful, there are at least two grades of finess-it. It's the right stuff to use, but get the finest grade. I don't think I would use Lava soap. It has fine particles, but there is no control on the grit size. Like a box of chocolates, you just don't know what your going to get. I'd stick with finess-it the grit size is very carefully controlled.

The Lava trick as you say has never given you a problem, but they do not control the grit size to any degree. The purpose of the lava soap is to wash hands that is cheap. You do not have to control grit size. The 2000 grit sand paper wet -or -dry is designed for auto paint. If you want to do the lens on your car, 3M has a special kit of that with significantly finer grit well controlled. The process is like any sanding stepping through a series of grits from coarse to finest. The kit was originally designed to take minor scratches out of the domes on F16's. Those have to be perfect. Back to valves, the Finesse-it product has the lubricants in it already. Someone with loads of experience can likely get away with using Lava, but for the rest of us, Finesse-it takes out a lot of variables.

I think that Bloke's observations are pretty on the mark. I have used lava as well, but I don't like to use it if I don't have to. I prefer to use a few different compounds made by Hetmann's or a gray thick compound that a friend picked up from Germany. I like non-embedding compounds.

The only concern I have with people introducing abrasives into their horns is that in in-experienced hands you can over lap slides or valves quickly, especially with a motorized tool. Once you go too far with your pistons, you either have to rebuild them or replace them, and neither option is cheap.