TubeNet

]Is it just me or does this tuba...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tuba-M-M-CC-5-4-Siz ... _500wt_922" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

kinda look like a PT-6P? Fifth valve tubing looks a little different but other than that they look a like. Thoughts? Anyone play this or have it?

Kinda... not really... obviously the bows are very different as well as the bell. Yeah, the valve cluster is 'similar' but the slide layout also looks different. What about it looks like the PT to you? I wouldn't say that it looks like a 6 maybe a 4P or a 20P... kinda.

-CT

Well, it's a nice thought that they might copy the 6P and not the 6 rotary, I haven't played a PT-6 that wasn't a dog

Casey Tucker wrote:Kinda... not really... obviously the bows are very different as well as the bell. Yeah, the valve cluster is 'similar' but the slide layout also looks different. What about it looks like the PT to you? I wouldn't say that it looks like a 6 maybe a 4P or a 20P... kinda.

-CT

Well other than the pipes that have the thumb ring on it the slide layout is about the same. The wrap of the bugle is the same as well. The bell is not as tall though. Wonder what they were basing this off of?

Hmm interesting...its a bit small for a PT6, but there is definitely some similarities between the PT6 and Mirafone 1290.

Alright, I do see some similarities but I think I agree with tuba_bloke with his relation to a 1290. Maybe I just don't see it.

-CT

In an earlier thread, Michael from M&M implied it was his own design.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40500&p=356878#p356878

I don't doubt that this is at least a very decent horn. However, I feel that M&M and other distributors of Chinese instruments are starting to price themselves out of the market. Their 186 clones are an outstanding value in the $2000 neighborhood. However, once the $3000 threshold is broken, it seems like that are many other options available for a good fullsized tuba.

The body of that tuba looks like it was "inspired" from a 4/4 Hirsbrunner.

MartyNeilan wrote:I don't doubt that this is at least a very decent horn. However, I feel that M&M and other distributors of Chinese instruments are starting to price themselves out of the market. Their 186 clones are an outstanding value in the $2000 neighborhood. However, once the $3000 threshold is broken, it seems like that are many other options available for a good fullsized tuba.

Exactly. I just made precisely that calculation, namely that for only a little more money than the next full sized Chinese horn I was considering, if I was careful I could restore and perhaps modify an old American 6/4, and that's what I'm doing.

talleyrand wrote:In an earlier thread, Michael from M&M implied it was his own design.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40500&p=356878#p356878

He also invites TubeNet members to call him about how his horns are uniquely designed and customized by him, and distinct from the other Jinbao made horns out there. I took up his kind offer. Michael's very charming. He gave me his standard pitch, reiterated exactly that, but wouldn't, or couldn't share a single detail about just how his Jinbao made tubas are different, or customized versus Schiller or any of the others. No one else yet has this particular CC model, but it closely resembles the Schiller BBb 4piston+1rotor, and those put out elsewhere in the US under local house brands. If anyone out there has actually tested this horn against similar sold in the US, and found clear distinctions, that would be fascinating to learn. Please share.

I agree, at $3750, and questions of provenance, design, and pricing, refurbs of used horns are competitive. Furthermore, just try finding a local player who has one of these horns to try out for yourself, or a professional nearby who admits to actually having bought or even tried one. I'm in NYC, and you'd think with the concentration around here, that would be possible. Not yet. The one pro who was said to have bought one claims he provided it to his alternate, and nothing further can be learned. I suspect buying these horns and being out in public about it is a bit politicized, from either a national or perhaps professional pride perspective.

Guys
Please show up at The USArmy Tuba Convention last week end in January and see and test the M&M instruments

Instruments look the same untill you hold them in your hands and take them for a test drive as in autos they look the same till you find out one has a 6 cyl engine and the other a V 12 with a super charger

And for the person that wonders about shipping to Europe
We ship direct from the factory to our dealers

We at M&M try to offer Hi quality instruments at a affordable price
That way we can help keep the music playing

Nothing bothers me more than seeing a student with a big wreck of a brass rotted out tuba trying to make music because a good instrument is out of there price range,we know they will quit

Try to remember the students, OK

M&M

We know exactly what the difference is between six cylinders and twelve in cars. What the difference is between your tubas and other Jinbaos is not so obvious. In fact, some of us are deeply skeptical that there is any difference. Until you tell us what the difference is, you're going to keep meeting with doubts here, I think. There is no question, at least for me, of dropping everything and going to the Army conference. I have paying work teaching at a conference in Grand Rapids that weekend.

So please just tell us exactly what the difference is. Pending such disclosure, I'm going to keep assuming the difference is that you have them stencil "M & M USA" on them and others don't.

Brasso, I love The Departed quote in your signature.

LJV, wasn't that sort of like what happened with the old German importer (what was it, like "die tuba"?) from 10 or 15 years ago, where you could order St. Petersburg... They were "ok" tubas with crappy valves, and you could pay them to rebuild the valves for you before shipping it. In the end, you got a decent (and better than stock) for a low price.

Sounds like the same sort of idea for these Chinese tubas, just maybe at the next level...