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That would be twenty-five cents in the ol' days, but I ask why, why, are there two bits after the mouthpiece of every Sousaphone? What's wrong with one bit, if you pull the slides out to lower the pitch accordingly? Why, oh why, must there be two bits? Has nobody ever gone off and used one bit? Nowhere is it written in the scripture that one bit shall suffice. Is this heresy, or NO?
Walter (of the Helicon that needs to point more skyward)

It can be a matter of weight distribution and mouthpiece angle comfort. It's whatever works for you.

You need two bits to be in true opposition to bloke’s recommendations:

Well... my marching band days were over 45 years ago. Today... it's simply a matter of comfort. I once had a Martin 'mammoth' sousaphone for which I custom-bent a mouthpipe and used no bits at all.

The idea of using bits at all pretty much flies in the face of conventional wisdom that governs leadpipes and conical bores. It's gotta just be a comfort issue.

Two bits allow one to adjust both height and width without changing the optimal weight distribution, therefor it is a good all-around solution for a horn that may have many players at a single time, such as a school. If there is only one player, the point is mute. or moot. or whatever fits in a hula-hoop...

It' only for adjustment. Not all people are built the same. Some are tall with long necks and some are short with no necks and you need to be able to adjust. That's the short and skinny of it...

I agree, of course, about the two bits helping the player to adapt to the instrument. However I do not agree with bloke in seeing the bits adding to a longer leadpipe like in the long leadpipes seen in some rotor valve tubas. At least not with the Conn Eb and BBb sousaphones, which are what I know about.

If some sort of gradual leadpipe expansion is desirable, then the bits are not desirable. At their best (still fully in round - clean edges of the male ends) the bits approach a cylindrical inner profile from where the mouthpiece ideally meets the end of the reverse conical receiver.

The expansion of the tubing only starts in the neck. And again here the older Conn models are a bit funny. The Eb sousaphone with their 0.689" bore have the same necks as have the 0.732" BBb sousaphones. The differences in the leadpipe-combo’s bore expansion all are in the lower leadpipe.

To me this all tastes of ease-of-production priorities being high on Conn’s agenda. Still I consider the older Conn sousaphones fine tubas, which I do not at all associate with the blatting contests heard on YouTube.

Klaus

I use a single bit with my Conn 14K. That instrument is smallish among sousaphones, and I'm largish among sousaphone players. Two bits forced my head back far enough for my second chin to interfere with breathing. One bit works fine.

Rick "if it works, it's right" Denney

The older Conn souzys had a neck with a different configuration as to how much rise verses how much run, and some did use a single bit. But I'm with everyone else: 2 bits is the least expensive way to make the souzy as adjustible as possible to each person's physique.

The interesting thing is the bits. They're all different, and there are some "universal" bits out there besides. When using bits:
1) Each maker has its own bits. For best results, use the bits made for each horn.
2) Each bit of a pair of King bits is slightly different, and you have to insert them in the right order to get the most out of them.
3) The "universal" bits are anything but. Refer to #1.
4) Conn bits are the easiest to work with, but at the same time, because of this, may be the most often seen abused.
5) Don't lubricate the bits, unless you want to chase your mouthpiece all over creation.
6) If a mouthpiece gets stuck to a bit, no big deal, unless it's the wrong one of a pair of King Bits. See #2.
7) If a pair of bits gets stuck together, and it's the ones you've been playing, at least for awhile it's no big deal.
8 ) But if everything gets stuck together, then maybe it's time to go see the tech.

iiipopes wrote:8 ) But if everything gets stuck together, then maybe it's time to go see the tech.

When a mouthpiece is stuck in a bit, a rap on the side of the bit's receiver will pop the tapered mouthpiece shank out of the bit. The only correct tool for striking the blow is a rawhide mallet, and a small one is fine. It works just as well for separating stuck bits. The techs will manage to keep busy without having to unstick bits, and a small rawhide mallet should be in every tuba player's kit.

Rick "who has unstuck a lot of bits in his day" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

iiipopes wrote:8 ) But if everything gets stuck together, then maybe it's time to go see the tech.

When a mouthpiece is stuck in a bit, a rap on the side of the bit's receiver will pop the tapered mouthpiece shank out of the bit. The only correct tool for striking the blow is a rawhide mallet, and a small one is fine. It works just as well for separating stuck bits. The techs will manage to keep busy without having to unstick bits, and a small rawhide mallet should be in every tuba player's kit.

Rick "who has unstuck a lot of bits in his day" Denney

Yes, but unfortunately, that did not work when my Kelly 18 got stuck on a bit really hard. If you're a regular customer, my tech will unstick mouthpieces, slides and bits gratis while you wait.

Another thing the little mallet is good for unsticking is cross-threaded valve caps. I had one go crossways on me right at the beginning of a gig, and I had literally one minute to get it unstuck and back going. I was already on the parade trailer, with no tools, so I borrowed a drumstick and tapped the same way. It clicked over the one worn thread and everything was on.

Kelly mouthpieces maybe will flex with the bit. Anyway this should work in that situation:

Rawhide mallets are great things to have. There haven't been many funky bottom caps that I haven't been able to remove with only a rawhide mallet. Delrin mallets work well if you pay attention to what you are doing.

imperialbari wrote:Kelly mouthpieces maybe will flex with the bit. Anyway this should work in that situation:

Funny story about a mouthpiece puller like that. When I was in grade school band, still playing trumpet, one day I got my mouthpiece hopelessly stuck. My mom took me down to music store to have it unstuck. The owner of the store had just gotten a new gadget that was supposed to be a one-squeeze wonder tool that looked like a cross between vise grips and a pickle fork that was supposed to pop mouthpieces right out. He tried it. It wouldn't budge. He tried it again. The tool bent. He took a deep breath, went and got his ancient version of the above, complete with an assortment of brass collars to fit different receivers and mouthpieces. He fit it up, and two turns of each leg and the mouthpiece was out. The "wonder tool" went into the trash can, and the antique went back on the bench.

My shop has one of the "wonder tools" you referred to. I use it for one thing; installing mollies on fiberglass sousaphones. You just need a very long screw and two large washers. It is a pretty neat trick.

In my opinion, "the wonder tool" in question too frequently slips, causing scratches and frustration. The old style Thompson mouthpiece pullers are what I like best. That is the one with the assortment of brass washers.

imperialbari wrote:.....Anyway this should work:

I tried to use one of these pullers to separate my stuck Schilke-Helleberg tuba mpc from the Bit, but was unable to turn the puller screws, as the little lever arms twirled right up against the mpc. If the mpc was about an inch shorter, it would have worked. I thought about modifying the screws by removing the arms and spot welding a 3/8 or 5/16 nut on the ends, so as to be able to turn them with a socket wrench, or intalling longer puller screws. I'm sure it works great on smaller mpcs, but more clearance is needed for deep mpcs. Hot water on a rag and a sudden kung fu twist did the job, which means it wasn't terribly stuck.

I appreciate all the wise and witty advice given in this thread. Using a single bit has brought the Eb King 4v Helicon a couple of inches closer to my face, which, in combination with turning a bit sideways, allows me to point the bell little more forward and skyward.

The best solution this problem: http://www.kanstul.net/detail.php?pass_ ... nd%20Brass" target="_blank

If I remember correctly, the venerable Thompson version has sliding levers, like a real bench vise has, so mouthpiece diameter is not an issue.

Supplier for the brass & music industry:

On the old fiberglass King sousaphone in 6th grade I used 2 bits. On the Conn 22K in 7th and 8th grade I used 1 bit. On the Conn 32K in high school I used 3 and sometimes 4 bits because the mouthpipe was so low it needed that many just to get the mouthpiece up to my chin. On the Conn 20K in college I used 2 bits. And on my Conn 40K I used to use 1 bit but now I have adjusted to 2 bits and have them angled coming in from the left side...very comfortable for me. It really bothers me how most people (mainly students) hold their sousaphones. I'm one out of 2 people in my entire college sousa section that prefers the "Front to back" position, while the others want that "side to side" position with the bell directly in front of their head..almost touching their forehead.. I hate that!!
I've always liked my bell pointing slightly upwards and to the left

I agree it's important for a section to match. There's over 20 sousa players here and most of them hold their horns the same way... the "WRONG" way. From far away everything pretty much matches, and really only other tuba players would notice if someone is holding their horn different. I've always held my horn like that..more comfortable.