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Hi

11 years ago, while preparing for my RSM licentiate, I somehow injured my lip playing tuba. I thought at the time it was just playing too high on a BBb tuba(Vaughn williams, gregson etc), but at the same time I was playing in an orchestra playing my YBB621 so remember a moment of pain after overblowing a D below stave.

I stopped playing classically thereafter, starting doing various other less intense things. 11 years on I'm playing swing, jazz, Gypsy swing etc, but have started getting mild pain again after playing an orchestral gig (Mahler 1).

My question - can someone help suggest ways I can build my embrochure without overdoing it? I believe firmly that my biggest issue is my breath support and tension while playing, but could it also be a blowout from overblowing the smaller horn? I avoid high note playing these days where possible ...

Any help welcome, or even advising of a good teacher in the UK who may be able to help ...

Thanks in advance,
Bruce

The 'see a doctor' comment is good if you can't find a way to mitigate the pain.

Legend had it, in Maynard Ferguson's heyday many trumpet players "blew out their chops" trying to imitate him. Claude Gordon made a name for himself rehabilitating them, and his method "Physical Approach to Brass Playing" came out of that teaching. I never bought the book, but it looked like basic stuff a good teacher would have anyone do.

Careful warmup routines were integral I recall; warming up would be the first thing to evaluate, I think. Good luck.

I have worked through the Claude Gordon book almost 30 years ago. It is wisely made for trumpet, and I managed doing the wide range exercises on my King 2B+ tenor trombone.

But when I tried the same stuff on my .547 symphonic trombone it was like killing myself. The CG exercises need a resistance in the instrument not found in low brasses. Your air will just disappear. Doing that programme on the small trombone still was of benefit for my general playing.

As I interprete CG it is all about controlled relaxation and relaxed control. To play the right pitches you need to be able to play all the wrong ones at will. The latter sentence maybe is more inspired by Denis Wick, who recommends being able to play smooth lip glissandos between the first two partials on all slide positions. I have in vito heard Denis Wick play a forte and fully resonant chromatic scale from pedal E and 4 octaves up. That was on a valveless .547 trombone, and there was no lack of sound quality of the notes in the gap, where there should have been no notes. That idea of controlling the fake notes certainly is shared between the CG and DW concepts.

Telling yourself that these ones are not worthwhile pursuing is true when only counting what works in performances. But you will gain that very desirable relaxed control, if you study that formally useless range.

Potentially there is a totally different explanation for your pain. I have been a schoolteacher also, so I know a bit about which incarnations lack of motivation may surface into. There may the profound problem that it isn ’t your own true desire to play classical music.

Klaus

Most of the trumpet players who played with Maynard studied with Reinhardt, because he was the one who actually had a systematic approach to playing correctly for each person, taking into account the different embouchure types, their typical strengths, weaknesses, and problems. No one else did that, not Claude Gordon, Caruso, or any of the other supposed brass teachers.

The same principles apply to tuba, euphonium, trombone, and french horn. There are different embouchures and they do not function the same way. It is very important, for long-term success, to use correct form for your own face so that the embouchure functions efficiently and is not fighting itself in parts of the range.

The chances are you were/are doing something that is contrary to the way your face really should function. Without seeing you I wouldn't have any specific recommendations, but I'm here if you want to PM me. I studied with Reinhardt for over 10 years and I specialize in fixing problems like that, and the symptoms that are commonly known as "focal dystonia."

pauvog1 wrote:

goodgigs wrote:Sir, I'm going to give you uncharacteristic advice, SEE A DOCTOR !

I agree. After you do this if you decide you need to look into embochure rebuilding I'd work on long tones, and lip slurs. Start doing these in your daily warm - up routine for 10 to 15 minutes daily.

Or, instead of jumping right back into long tones, lip slurs, etc,, you might consider rebuilding your embouchure via this regimen AFTER you've seen a doctor.

Don't see just any doctor - see an oral surgeon. I don't know about the UK, but in the US, oral surgeons really should be called head and neck surgeons. Oral surgery overlaps with facial/plastic surgery on many levels. They specialize in soft tissue and skeletal issues of the head. Oral surgeons are often called on to repair facial injuries, including surgeries where the face is, well, cut off and peeled back to the forehead so the skeletal structure can be restored after severe trauma. (...hence the title "oral/maxillofacial" surgeon.)

It's like any regimen on which you are about to embark. It is wise to seek the counsel of a professional, rather than the opinion of the TNFJ. Be sure you have no continuing soft tissue or structural damage at the root of your issue, if it continues to be ongoing, or you may risk not only perpetuating discomfort but also the furtherance of damage.

(f.y.i., my point of reference is a wife who's a dentist, and many friends who are oral surgeons. While not in the field, I've been party to many discussions that have effectively put an end to my appetite. )