TubeNet

First off thanks to all who have helped me in previous posts regarding which direction I should go in purchasing my first tuba..

I am planning a trip to a music store to look at a few possibilities. What should I expect to be able to do with a new tuba while at the shop? Should I be able to play it, test it against a tuner, etc to make sure its the one? I understand floor models and their function in allowing you to quickly get a ergonomic feel and playability, but I'd expect to play and test tune the one I intend on purchasing to make sure it wasn't a lemon. Am I out of line in this request?
Just to make sure I've explained myself to everyone here's what I am envisioning....Upon arriving at shop I quickly go through the floor models to find the model that ergonomically/playability makes me happy....then thoroughly inspect/play/test a few tubas of the model I like until I find the tuba that meets my expectations. This could easily be the first one or perhaps number 2, 3, or whatever.

Shop owners, sellers, dealers, tell me what to expect.

bloke wrote:Wear slacks with no metal studs and some sort of pull-over shirt with no buttons. Bring along an Indian blanket. And take off all jewelry (rings, watch, bracelets), your belt/suspenders, etc. (ie. Avoid scratching their tuba.)

As a courtesy to the seller, if the valves are sluggish, inform seller/sales rep and let him/her decide whether to oil it him-/herself or to let you do it.

play "The Ride" as loudly as possible 4-5 times on each horn. They love it and can't hear it often enough.

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play "The Ride" as loudly as possible 4-5 times on each horn. They love it and can't hear it often enough. [/quote]

My favorite is when "Ride" is played as loud as humanly possible 4-5 times on each horn in a dealer's hall at the ITEA convention.

Homerun wrote: play "The Ride" as loudly as possible 4-5 times on each horn. They love it and can't hear it often enough.

My favorite is when "Ride" is played as loud as humanly possible 4-5 times on each horn in a dealer's hall at the ITEA convention.

By HS kids who have world class sound.

Just be polite. Sales people WANT to sell you something. They will work with you if you are reasonable. If you find one you like, ask to check it out on approval to try with your private teacher or in ensemble.

Now you aren't out of line expecting to play an instrument with a tuner, but I would suggest that if you want to do that, you bring your own.

Where do you plan on going to try out horns?

While I understand the "Ride" humor, I did actually play it as a solo in HS. Wasn't the prettiest but still got good marks from the judge who praised my ambition. I'll save the salesman the experience....
I have two models in mind that I want to try. I'm currently using a Conn-Helleberg mp and will inquire with the local HS about any others they might have laying around to try. Hopefully I can play with the other mp before I go so I have some comfort with them.

Any shop that is selling Tubas should stock at least a few good basic Tuba mouthpieces, like Conn or CKB 24AW, 18 and 25 mouthpieces at the very least. Experiment and find what is best for you.

What horn do you think you might want? BBb or CC?

One experience I've had that I'll share for what it's worth. I was traveling cross country and have always wanted to stop and try the tubas at WWBW if only because it's a frequent trip I take and they have a decent amount in the tuba room. I finally happened to be driving by it first thing on a Sat. morning when they were just opening, I had a mouthpiece with me and it was an almost deserted store. I asked if I could try some tubas and mentioned that I had a mouthpiece. They said fine and away I went. I spent a chunk of time trying each and every model and pitch horn they had.

My advice would be similar to others that you have your own mouthpiece, obviously be careful what you wear so as to not damage the goods, but maybe most importantly I think if you show up early when they aren't busy they might be more apt to let you go to town and spend the time you'd like playing what you'd like.

Just my 2c,
Rob

This is worth five minutes of any consumer's time...

Prager University: Everyday Ethics: Consumer Rights... and Wrongs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSQOEEQUps

Smokeytuba wrote:Am I out of line in this request?

All of your expectations are reasonable. Just exercise due care, as Joe suggests.

I've done more than you are suggesting, even to the extent of gathering several tubas from several dealers at a tuba conference and taking them elsewhere to compare them. But it is important to note that they all know me and there is a certain comfort level. How you handle yourself with the floor models will inform their comfort level when you start wanting to pull new instruments out of stock to compare them.

Rick "nervous with dealer instruments, which is a good thing" Denney

I wouldn't overthink this process. It's not a big deal. Like others have said, the store is in the business of selling and they ought to know that anyone coming in to try an instrument is going to want to try it out. Even if you walked in without a MP, and without a tuner - they are probably going to try to accommodate you. So just go in, get the tubas you are interested in, then play them. Play stuff you are currently working on. If that mean honking out The Ride, so be it. Bring your music and actually practice. That's what you're going to do with it at home - right?

Stefan

I'm in the process of saving to buy a new CC and F, so I've made a couple of trips to WWBW (about a seven hour drive each way) to sample horns. I'll just give you a rundown of how I went about things and you can take it for what it's worth:

Roger Lewis is a guy with a lot of experience dealing with the aftermath of demo sessions, so he may be the guy to ask. Anyhow, here's what I did.

I'll agree that brushing and flossing beforehand is a respectful thing to do, as is dumping the spit out of all the horns you try. Doing this is respectful to others and the company itself.

Try as many horns as possible that are within your budget.

Narrow it down to a model or two and try all of the examples of those horns that they have in stock.

Bring a mouthpiece, but don't be afraid to ask to use a model that they sell to see how mouthpiece sensitive the horn is. Places like WWBW keep a wide variety on hand.

When I've been there, they have had a couple of containers of valve oil floating around the room where the tubas are kept. I brought a tuner the first time, but asked to borrow theirs the next time. They were happy to help.

Take some music. A couple of contrasting etudes will do. Maybe a solo if you are thinking about buying an F or Eb. I've heard people complain about some folks blatting out Ride or Meistersinger in cattle call rooms, but if you plan on using the horn in an orchestral setting, don't be afraid to play through a few things. Just a couple of basic excerpts would do. Playing things tastefully will go a long way.

Be careful. The horn doesn't belong to you yet. No scratchy metal belts, zippers, etc unless you have something to buffer them against the horn.

Take notes on intonation, reponse, etc.

Narrow it down to a couple of horns, and if you don't have a trained set of ears with you, ask the salesperson how things sound. If they are worth their salt, they will give you an honest answer.

If you can sleep on it and come back the next day to make the purchase, all the better. I think new horn adrenaline can sometimes blur our ears and minds and a good nights sleep may well clarify things.

Enjoy yourself. Take your time. It's a big investment.

Stefan wrote:I wouldn't overthink this process. It's not a big deal. Like others have said, the store is in the business of selling and they ought to know that anyone coming in to try an instrument is going to want to try it out. Even if you walked in without a MP, and without a tuner - they are probably going to try to accommodate you. So just go in, get the tubas you are interested in, then play them.

Stores are in the business of selling their products, but a customer's behavior goes a long way to determining how willing or unwilling the store is to negotiate a discount--and how much of a discount--from the asking price. A person who shows up with all the equipment he/she needs to audition instruments is likely to receive a more substantial discount than a person demonstrates complete disregard for the store personnel's time and energy by requiring them to procure mpcs, tuners, music stands, etc. that the customer has no intention of buying in order to conduct the audition.

Let the store know you're coming, and what you want.

Bring a mouthpiece and a tuner. I only played the models I knew I could afford, and spent almost all the time on the model I expected to buy (in order to compare intonation). I came home with a horn that I don't need to wrestle.

Allow yourself a lot of time.

In my experience brass retailers and manufactures are the most friendly and helpful sales people out there. I can't recall there ever being any issues with playing the desired instrument(s) for an extended period of time, trialling multiple MPs, etc.

I think proper manners basically just means taking extra care to ensure that the instruments are not damaged or marked in anyway.

In fact, music shops in general seem to be very obliging. I'm often amazed to see guitar shops hand over $2,000 + instruments to spotty teenage kids so they can show friends their awesome skills playing smoke on the water.

Well the cats out of the bag. Given that this is a hobby, I can't justify travel more than necessary to find a horn. Laabs' happens to be a short trip and carry a reasonably priced line that I'd at least like to try/decide for myself. I'd love to visit all of the tuba shops (help out the sponsors) but I can't imagine how I'd tell my wife that I'll be gone for the next week travelling to (Insert City, State). If I don't decide on one from Laab's, you can bet I'll be asking if anyone has a 4 valve BBb tuba for sale. Thanks for all the good information.
Joel Jepsen (Smokeytuba)

Dylan King wrote:This is worth five minutes of any consumer's time...

Prager University: Everyday Ethics: Consumer Rights... and Wrongs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSQOEEQUps

I respectfully disagree with the video's inferences that potential buyers should not get all the information they can. Information about the product and the price are valuable, which is why many businesses (not necessarily music stores) like to keep the details out of sight. Economists have killed many trees publishing journal articles about uninformed consumers.

The best sales people add value to the purchase, beyond the product's cost, by providing information and advice about engineering, selection availability, suitability for the intended purpose, and value.

Mr. Prager is not saying that one should not get all of the information they can when making a purchase, he is just saying that one who has already made up his mind that he will not purchase at a particular vendor, for whatever reason, should not waste the time and resources of that seller.

I'll give you a tuba related hypothetical.

Say that you have decided to purchase a Chinese clone tuba, and know that you can get one on ebay for $1,000. And you also know that the exact horn is sitting in your local music shop for $1,200 -- but you have made up your mind to get in online for the cheapest price no matter what. You just really want to try before you buy, so you drive over to the music store and spend some time playing their Chinese model (same horn -- different name engraved on the bell) and talking to the salesperson extensively about the product.

Now, if you told the sales person that you can buy that horn on ebay directly from China for $200 less, that would be OK. You are giving him an opportunity to beat the deal, or explain why it is better to shop with him (warranty etc...). This is also assuming that you will legitimately consider his comeback deal.

But if you just walk on out of the store, with no thought from the very beginning of ever buying it from them, after having taken their time, there is an ethical problem going on. Of course, it is not illegal to do this, and many people may not think it is even wrong, but it is a good principle to think about as a consumer if one truly believes in the Judeo-Christian value that we should treat our neighbors (and even strangers) the way we would like to be treated ourselves.