TubeNet

So I'm a euphonium player looking into getting a new horn and I have chosen the horn I want a Besson Prestige.
I have 2 horns
The first one is a used horn that my teacher would like to sell to me for $5800
pros
-comes with gig bag and original Besson case
-In almost perfect condition (one dent the size of a baby ant)
- I know the seller and don't have to ship.
Cons
-It is a used horn
-I would not be able to a maintenance plan on it.
-I personally would have to buy new springs for the ones in the horn are to stiff. (Not a huge deal just something, I have considered)
-I want to try and buy a "belly plate" that does come with new horns.
( if you know where to buy one I would love to know where to get it)

The new Besson is $6,670
Pros
-its new
-I will be able to get a maintenance plan through prowinds.
-nothing to replace
Cons
-no gig bag
- it costs about 1 grand more (with tax)
- It isn't as broken in as the used one.

The main issue is the maintenance plan, though With most of my time with thits horn I'll be at university, so there might be the tools to clean it, or make friends with an instrument repair major, making that extra cost unnecessary ( probably around $750 for the next 5.years.)

I have played both of these horns so please give me some advise!

You should learn how to do basic maintenance on your horn and put together a "maintenance kit". Find a reputable repairman to perform periodic check ups and any repairs your instrument may need. This will be FAR cheaper and more convenient than any "maintenance plan" That said, I would go for horn #1--save your $$$!

JJ

Go for the first one!!

bort wrote:Even with some sizeable repairs, I have not spent a combined $750 for tuba repair/maintenance in the past 10 years.

How often do you take your horn in for a chem clean?

As for the horn just pick which one plays better. Unless the "maintenance" plan includes a free chem clean every 6-12 months for the next five years I would go with the used one based on price. The belly shield is just to keep grease off your belly so unless you got a big belly I find them to be unneeded weight (I feel these horns could use to be a little bit lighter in general). Also, If this music store isn't in the town you are going to school than the maintenance plan is kinda useless.

Just some thoughts

Edited... guess I forgot how much cleaning adds up.

Go with the first one. I know a great maintence guy btw. New springs are cheap and I'm sure the amound you save (price differences plus it coming with a case and gig bag) will cover things you want to add.
ttyl Luke

There is something very special about opening the case of a brand new virgin horn in all it's shining glory, knowing that you will be the first person to input saliva, bacteria, viruses (of varying degrees of pathogenicity), breakfast debris, alcohol residue, various sugars and anything else that comes from someone elses mouth. You will not be inheriting the results of another persons personal habits, maintenance schedules, wear and tear or misuse of the euphonium. Considering the many years you are likely to own this horn, and the amount of use it's going to get, another $1000 is well worth the money IMO. Forget any maintenance plans. A gig bag can wait. Start university with a new horn, and best wishes for your future musical career.

bububassboner wrote:

bort wrote:Even with some sizeable repairs, I have not spent a combined $750 for tuba repair/maintenance in the past 10 years.

How often do you take your horn in for a chem clean?

As for the horn just pick which one plays better. Unless the "maintenance" plan includes a free chem clean every 6-12 months for the next five years I would go with the used one based on price. The belly shield is just to keep grease off your belly so unless you got a big belly I find them to be unneeded weight (I feel these horns could use to be a little bit lighter in general). Also, If this music store isn't in the town you are going to school than the maintenance plan is kinda useless.

Just some thoughts

It does come with a Sonic Cleaning everything 12 Months.

The place I'd get it cleaned is in Indianapolis, maybe a 30 minute drive at most and its 15 minutes away from the place I'd like to attend .
The belly shield, stops the moving slide from hitting my belly. I found where to buy both of the things I want.

euphomate wrote:knowing that you will be the first person to input saliva, bacteria, viruses (of varying degrees of pathogenicity), breakfast debris, alcohol residue, various sugars and anything else that comes from someone elses mouth.

You mean, other than Steve Mead who allegedly tests every Prestige and Sovereign coming off the assembly line to ensure their consistency and the QC technicians at JA Musik.

$5800 sounds like a lot to me. Cry some and get the price down. I've never heard of a "Belly Shield" until tonight. Save your money.

My F tuba in 15 years got cleaned up once specifically for one valve linkage. "Maintenance" aside from that is a little oil. A toothbrush and floss kit works wonders on you and the horn.

good luck

swillafew wrote:$5800 sounds like a lot to me. Cry some and get the price down. I've never heard of a "Belly Shield" until tonight. Save your money.

My F tuba in 15 years got cleaned up once specifically for one valve linkage. "Maintenance" aside from that is a little oil. A toothbrush and floss kit works wonders on you and the horn.

good luck

It's a piece of plastic that for me stops the trigger from hitting my fat stomach. It's about 30 bucks. Not a huge burden when I'm spending this much money.
Now for a change of subject.
That what I'm thinking about for maintenance, I can bathe the horn my self, and that, but maybe its just because I'm paranoid I need one with the piece of **** horn I had before ( if youd like to buy it its for sale in the for sale section, you can beat it with a bat, or drop kick it, I'd just like to help) this, that broke every 3 months.

Before you jump on the used Besson euph... contact one of the shops below, armed with the exact model and serial number to make sure parts won't be a problem. NEW Besson Prestige euphs are produced by Meinl in Germany and many of the parts won't interchange with Bessons only a couple of years old... specifically the parts that have screw-threads. There have been many improvements made to the new ones.... 1) better method to hold the valve guides down. 2) quick-release linkage on the main slide 'kicker'. 3) the 'belly-plate' you mentioned... just to name a few.

Those UK contacts for 'not new' Besson euphs:
Paul Gardner
Windcraft, Ltd.
Sales@windcraft.co.uk" target="_blank" target="_blank

Jim Pagington
JP Brass
Jim.Pagington@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank" target="_blank

The price drop on the used one isn’t big enough to constitute the deciding factor. That is: if you can afford the new one. However the used one still may be the best player for you. And as others so wisely have stated: Take the one that works best for you. However none of the sellers should be on the decision panel. A tuner and a couple of external and knowledgeable ears may be very helpful.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:Take the one that works best for you. However none of the sellers should be on the decision panel. A tuner and a couple of external and knowledgeable ears may be very helpful.

Klaus

Very wise words indeed. If I were you, I would check the pitch on ALL octaves of Eb, G, and C. Also check out the low C and F with the fourth valve. A friend has this model and those pitches are all jacked up on his horn.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh because I mean to encourage you to embrace what it means to be a musician.

This is a piston valve euphonium, right? Have you ever oiled valves or lubed slides? If you have, and you can give the horn a bath (like you said), YOU are capable of 99% of euphonium maintenance. I can't think of a more uncomplicated and low-maintenance instrument.

Consider it good early training. If your career goals are to work in the field of music education, you will probably be presented with much more severe instrument issues than the basic care and cleaning of a euphonium.

Surely a professional-quality new instrument will not fall apart like your previous piece of ****. And your teacher would not sell you a junker, right?

So stop worrying and start making music! And take bububassboner's advice and buy the horn that sounds best.

Good luck!

Karl "who's never bought a brand-new never-played instrument and loves his previously-owned horns" H.

The older Besson may have flat 5th partial and/or sharp 6th partials that you may or may not be able to live with. When it was new, this was accepted as a personality trait of Besson. But now there are so many good euphs out there that have resolved this issue to varying degrees that it would have to be very special, indeed, with its tone and intonation (like my 3-valve comp BBb tuba) to warrant purchasing it as a primary instrument.

I have lost some sleep the last couple of nights, thinking about which horn to get, everything logical tells me that I should save my money get the used horn and spend some of the money I save (around $100) to get the extra stuff I want. BUT! Me being a human, I would love that feeling of being the first person (other than Steven Mead) to play that horn, being able to take it out of the plastic knowing that that horn is truly my horn.

Other things to notice: The horns play very similar, and are very similar in intonation.
This choice is probably going to come down to Emotions vs Logic.

EuphtoTuba wrote:This choice is probably going to come down to Emotions vs Logic.

The simplified version of the relation between emotions and and logic could be, that logic is the way we try to explain how we acted on a purely emotional basis. If you are a reasonably educated person, your emotions are trained to act in an approximately sane way. I think you should go with your emotions.

Klaus

I have owned more tubas than I can remember, with only one of them being a new purchase. The moment you open the new instrument's case, it becomes a used instrument (okay -- maybe after an hour of playing it). New instruments are nice, but $1,000 will buy several college books (though not as many as it USED to buy -- hint -- use Amazon!). As this may not be your LAST euph purchase, save the $$$.

My $0.02,

Cheers!

bloke wrote:We're stuck on "Besson Prestige"?

Wrap the money up in some asbestos, so it doesn't burn a hole in your pocket.

Once the teacher frees themselves of the Besson, with what are they hoping to replace it?

Is there more or less secretly a reference to a pattern (told about here on TN) that certain F tubas with limited lower ranges were sold down a line of less and less experienced students?

Klaus