TubeNet

Please answer the poll assuming that all of the horns are available for your use in a semi-staged production complete with adult chorus, children's chorus, etc.

Then, please comment about which horn would you use if no cimbasso were available to you.

Thanks!

Being an Italian opera, ideally it would be cimbasso, but if not available I would say bass tuba (preferably small) with shallow cup mouthpiece. I personally would reach for my MW14 travel tuba

Neptune wrote:Being an Italian opera, ideally it would be cimbasso, but if not available I would say bass tuba.

I agree.

I've played this opera twice. Both times on a 186 CC. Seemed fine to me.

I've only limited opera experience but in recent concerts that have included excerpts from La Boheme,etc. I used an Eb and it seemed to work well. The trombone section (and I) liked the blend we got.

Why not use the instrument specified in the score? ie. Bass Trombone

Did it on an F cimbasso and everyone seemed happy.

Posaune2 wrote:Why not use the instrument specified in the score? ie. Bass Trombone

Bass trombone in this case would have been a valve trombone in F, so a cimbasso (or possibly a contrabass trombone) would be the best match.
The Icelandic Opera usually has cimbasso parts played on a contrabass trombone, which is a natural choice as we have an excellent contrabass trombone player and no cimbasso.

Steve Marcus wrote:Please answer the poll assuming that all of the horns are available for your use in a semi-staged production complete with adult chorus, children's chorus, etc.

Then, please comment about which horn would you use if no cimbasso were available to you.

Thanks!

I'm playing this right now. Cimbasso would be my first choice but I'm playing it on F tuba. It doesn't really matter with this one though. You aren't really gonna be playing much. In fact, in my part after I play a section (a section being maybe three notes) it pretty much just says tacit till you come back in. Fun opera to listen to though, just make sure the bass trombonist wakes you up every so often

I haven't done Boheme on cimbasso, but Butterfly was fun on my Eb cimbasso. I'd certainly do any Puccini or Verdi opera on cimbasso if OK with the conductor.

Both times I've played Bohem, I was asked to play Cimbasso (mine is a slide instrument in F with a large bell). As for "Bass Trombone" being what this is scored for, "Trombone Basso" is not the term it looks like in English

The instrument in question is a BBb valve trombone. In Turandot has a fuller name listed in the score, but the only tuba part of Puccini's I know of is in Manon, which I haven't performed.

In general, Puccini's scoring for the instrument is more advanced than Verdi's, as the tessitura is generally lower and more sonorous, which does allow the tuba to sound less "bad/wrong". Verdi uses the instrument by the exact standards of ophicleide use (see Berlioz).

Bass trombone sounds too light; you really want a wide, blending pallete for this work with more brilliance at the top with growing darkness as you descend down the quartet. But the tuba, for me, ruins it... but less so than playing bass bone or tuba on Verdi's later works.

Cimbasso. Otherwise, synthesizer.

BTW - Cimbasso are defined in this context, for me, as an instrument cylyndrical in bore profile modeled off the trombone family which is pitched below the contemporary bass trombone.

J.c. Sherman wrote:But the tuba, for me, ruins it... but less so than playing bass bone or tuba on Verdi's later works.

Cimbasso. Otherwise, synthesizer.

OUCH!

LJV wrote:

J.c. Sherman wrote:Cimbasso. Otherwise, synthesizer.

That says a lot...

Depends on the level of amplification.

LJV wrote:

J.c. Sherman wrote:Cimbasso. Otherwise, synthesizer.

That says a lot...

The joke being if you're using tuba, you might as well use whatever you want... bass clarinet, contrabass flute... they'll all be equally right

I'm doing this in two weeks.
Unless I can borrow a Cimbasso, my small F will to do.

Speaking of tuba parts, I'm playing a Sinatra concert tonight and although most parts have the word "Tuba" written on them, they're bass trombone parts. Being as comfortable on trombone gives me the advantage of choosing what instrument is appropriate for the music. I realize that the charts are rebranded to make them more attractive to music directors and orchestra managers who don't like hiring too many extras.

At the first rehearsal, the conductor was looking for the tuba at the beginning of "I've got you under my skin" which starts with the famous bass trombone lick. He,obviously, doesn't listen to that stuff much.
Steve Lappia has all the great charts. It's a fun concert. I'm playing tuba in 3 numbers only. The rest is all on a Kanstul 1670 with the GR2 leadpipe and a Bach 1-1/4G which I absolutely love for this stuff.

We're doing this opera next season. I will be using my Eb cimbasso and have used it before on this work and it fits wonderfully. The first time I ever played this opera, in the first season I was in my orchestra job, the conductor specifically asked me to play the part on an old Besson F tuba, just like the one used in the premiere of the Vaughan-Williams. The orchestra provided the horn, since I didn't own one, and it was a real challenge for me to make that thing sound any good at all. It was further complicated by my tendency for Eb bass tubas. I imagine I felt like Arnold Jacobs did after he was asked to play a Viennese F tuba. I couldn't give the thing away fast enough after the performances.

Glad to see you post, Jay!

And glad to see the MSO being in operation. Last thing I remember reading here on TN was that the orchestra folded some years ago.

Klaus

Posaune2 wrote:Why not use the instrument specified in the score? ie. Bass Trombone

+1

Hey Klaus, nice to see you still around these parts. Actually, the Miami Symphony Orchestra is a completely different organization than the orchestra I used to play with, that being the Florida Philharmonic Orchestra. The FPO ceased operations in 2003 and I'm now a freelance player here in South Florida. I've been lucky to land a few positions here and there and, combined with my teaching, I'm starting to make some headway back to the land of the living. Here's hoping it continues...