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I have heard that the original Hirschbrunners were a copy of a Conn CC. Does anyone have any light to shed on that subject?

Thanks,
Frank Ortega

I've heard that as well and would be curious to learn more about it.

While there are some quite obvious differences, the body shape and taper of a RM 4345 bears a striking resemblance to the body of a 4/4 Hirsbrunner.

The Rudolf Meinl 4345 piston was sold by the Brasswind as the Rudolf Meinl CCC or some name that involved "Conn Copy".

I've often wondered if both of those instruments were originally based on the same tuba.

read through this thread from old tubenet.

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jan2002 ... 82308.html" target="_blank

There may be another answer here. One of the handful of rotary CCs Conn made for Helleberg could conceivably have inspired Hirsbrunner, no? I tried one of them some years ago - used to sit next to it all the time - and I recall that the bugle is quite close in size and shape to that of an HB 4/4. Response is not far off, layout of the valve cluster I think quite a bit different though.

Rudy Meinl has made a copy of the so-called "Helleberg Conn tuba" although Helleberg had nothing to do with it. Rudy also has a copy of the 5/4 York, possibly the least successful of the York tubas but not a bad horn.

All this information is through a local tuba afficianado who owns both of those horns. I don't know if these are the horns you are talking about but I hope the info helps.

Thanks for all of the great comments, guys!

Very interesting to hear about the Rudy Meinl Copies. Would love to see pics of those horns!

According to this website;

http://www.voigtarnsted.dk/helleberg/index.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

Helleberg sent a Conn CC tuba back to Denmark in the 1920's.
So, Conn CC tubas made it to Europe fairly early on.
Another article says that his first Rotary tuba was made by Conn in 1896.

I've seen several photos of Conn CC tubas, mostly piston that resemble the taper and bell size of the modern Hirschbrunners.
The biggest variations seem to be in slant vs parallel valves and
the location of the tuning slides. The models with parallel valves seem to all have the tuning in the leadpipe, where the slant valves have the tuning slide after the valves. The original patent for the slant valves seems to indicate that these were invented for better drainage.

As you may have guessed, I'm now the proud owner of a Conn CC tuba circa 1918.

There was some speculation on this forum a while back as to whether the instrument was cut or factory original. I beleive that since these were probably special order instruments, there is a little variation in each. But this one (IMHO) is definitely a factory original and plays with better intonation than many modern instruments. And of course, the sound can't be beat! I believe this is largely due to the very gradual and precise taper of the horn. It'I don't think it's a 34J, Orchestra Grand, but may be what one would consider a Donatelli. (I'd like to know exactly when and why that designation came about.) It's also not a smaller "Harvey" horn either. As it has the .732 bore of the larger instruments. What ever it is, it's a gem! And comparing it with a prominent local player's HB2P, it matches up both visually and tonally.


Have no fear, Horn dorn soon to follow!

Thanks for your kind attention in this matter.

Frank Ortega

I've played both 4345 models and the Conn copy and the rotary 4345 was my favorite. There are other images but this one of the Conn copy is decent.

http://www.myspace.com/chiakiserpentuba ... 2620119%7D