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HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band too

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:36 pm
by Tuba-G Bass
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/parklan ... 0503.story

Parkland issues new marching orders

If freshmen want to take band class,
they'll have to march at football games and parades.

(Parkland School District is in Lehigh County, Pennsylvania,
West of Allentown, PA)

By Devon Lash, OF THE MORNING CALL

7:45 PM EST, February 16, 2011
Starting next fall, Parkland freshmen who sign up for concert band classes
will have to lace up their marching shoes as well.

Under a new policy, the high school will require students who wish to
continue studying drums, trumpets and other instruments in a concert band
class to commit to performing at Trojan football games,
Halloween parades and other events.

The mandate will begin with incoming freshmen in 2011-12,
meaning current students will be grandfathered into the existing policy,
which allows students to take band class
without having to perform on a marching field.

As part of the change, the elective course will carry one credit,
not a half-credit as is the case now.

Parkland says the change is being made to boost the marching band,
which now numbers about 40 students.

"Obviously, [our band] has fewer members than those at Liberty,
Easton and Freedom high schools," said Rich Sniscak, assistant superintendent.
"With a school of 3,200, the band should be more representative of school population."

But parents say the new rule is out of tune with past policies
that have encouraged kids to study music.

"The fact is students want band but not marching band,"
arent Jim Ondrey said. He was one of about a dozen people,
nearly all parents of eight-graders at Orefield Middle School,
who decried the new policy at the district's school board meeting Tuesday night.

Parents say the new rule will affect curriculum choices.
It will put an end to years of music lessons for students
who don't want to commit the extra time and effort it
takes to march at football games and parades, Ondrey said.

To allay parents' course concerns, incoming freshman who
want to fit marching band in with honors and other difficult
courses will get priority scheduling, said Superintendent Louise Donohue.

The band has also cut down on after-school rehearsals because a
survey showed the students' biggest complaint was the
commitment level required during non-school hours, Donohue said.

But parent Sharon Kennan argued that the new requirement is
removing all choice —
exactly what electives are meant to offer — from her daughter Tara.

"We've invested all this money in renting equipment and
now we don't have option to keep up the talent she learned," she said.
Summer practice camp, uniform upkeep and the Friday night
home-and-away football games are even more reasons
not to force kids into it, she said.

Ryan Muller, an eighth-grade trumpet player at Orefield,
said between working toward his Eagle Scout status in
Boy Scouts and planning fundraisers for his church's youth group,
he can't commit to the time needed outside of school for the marching band.

"I enjoy band, but I'm not signing up this year," he said.

The high school is prepared to lose a few musicians who
aren't happy with the new requirement.

"There's always a drop-off when they move into high school
simply because the world of electives opens up," Donohue said.

She also pointed out that with three-quarters of the freshman
scheduling already completed, 68 have signed up for marching band
that's more members than the current band has.

Though promising flexibility, the district is "firmly committed to making this work"
and bringing Parkland's marching band in line with
high schools and universities across the country, she said.

School board President Jayne Bartlett acknowledged
that the policy isn't making everyone happy.

"But I'm happy that we are actually discussing our band program
and how we are going to change our band program,
and not that we have to cut it," she said.

devon.lash@mcall.com" target="_blank

610-820-6613

Requiring concert band class students to join marching band
Pro:
•Could boost Parkland's marching band, which has 40 students from a school of about 3,200.
•Could bring up the overall quality of marching band.
Con:
•Hurts student who wants to take concert band class, but lacks time for marching band.
•Limits the electives a student can take.

Copyright © 2011, The Morning Call
What does the TNFJ think?? :tuba:
and I apologize if this the wrong section to post this story in. :oops:

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:16 pm
by rodgeman
In high school I went to 4 different schools in 4 different states. In every one I had to march to play in concert band. I think that is how it should be.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:25 pm
by The Big Ben
If a school of 3200 students only has 40 members in the marching band, there is some other problem besides the freshmen not wanting to sign up. If I had mandatory marching band as well as concert band when I was going to school, it would have been a very difficult choice for me. I loved to play music but absolutly hated the little bit of marching that I had to do.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:28 pm
by Tuba-G Bass
My own experience,
I played in Marching and Concert Bands etc during 9th and 10 grades
while attending Rockingham County High School, [In North Carolina]
and then 11th and 12th grades at Northampton High in Pennsylvania.
I played in the Marching and Concert Bands, also Jazz, and whatever else
A Tuba could get into. :mrgreen:
I don't recall at either school having Concert band only players,
it would have been weird! :roll:
I loved my four years marching,
even if I did have to stay in the General Academic track
rather then College Prep because of the time commitment
needed to be a Bando!
:tuba:
The Northampton band was very active in competitions
the two years I was in.
http://www.northampton.k12.pa.us/webpag ... bpage=252"
http://www.veoh.com/collection/northamptonbignband

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:03 pm
by Homerun
The question to answer is: how much does marching band add to a musical education? Have fun TNFJ!

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:17 pm
by iiipopes
So? We all had band in my school: in the fall you marched. Then when football season was over we quickly put together a combined Christmas concert. Then we had concert band in the 2nd semester, including prepping for spring contest, including solos, small ensembles as well as full band.

That's the way its all done around here.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:28 pm
by Dan Schultz
Face it. Marching band is just another form of sports program. Sports are backed heavily by parents.... including marching band. It wasn't that way when I was in high school ... mumble years ago. But... it's stand operating procedure around here these days. No march, no play jazz, etc. etc. etc.

I don't agree with it but that's the way it is.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:37 pm
by TMurphy
As a teacher, I don't agree with it, but completely understand why it's being done. If you have 40 kids in your marching band, it doesn't matter if there are 200 kids in the concert band; the marching band is the most visible ensemble the school has, and is often all the community and school board sees of your program. With budgets being slashed all over the place, having a strong, visible marching band is important.

Glad I only teach high school once a week, and only as a low brass instructor.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:28 am
by Chadtuba
iiipopes wrote:So? We all had band in my school: in the fall you marched. Then when football season was over we quickly put together a combined Christmas concert. Then we had concert band in the 2nd semester, including prepping for spring contest, including solos, small ensembles as well as full band.

That's the way its all done around here.
This is the way I went through high school and the way it is still done with most of my friends who teach band. It is the way that I would do it but my current HS band is only 8 students with the JH adding another 11. Even with my small numbers all my students play in the basketball pep band and like a marching band this is our most visible time. We have received many compliments due to our being at the BB games with most coming from parents who wouldn't normally come to the concerts and visiting teams' parents whose home games don't have a band.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:04 am
by k001k47
I'd imagine that this isn't a very good marching band.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:57 am
by averagejoe
When I was in high school marching band was mandatory for doing concert band second semester. I hated marching band. I hated doing drills, night and weekend practices. I felt that it was unfair that my letter grade in a class was tied to numerous hours of extra commitment outside of class time. If an athlete does poorly in their schoolwork, they are dropped from their sport. Marching band was the opposite; if somebody had poor attendance in after school marching stuff that they are forced to do, their grade in the class was lowered hurting their g.p.a. I couldn't stand playing the same music every morning and some evenings and weekends. Marching the same drill over and over every school day with evenings and weekends tacked on too. I hated being yelled at by drill instructors and being forced to do push ups (they called it celebrating :roll: ) when my section didn't perform well. No P.E. credit was offered (as is the case in many Southern California schools) for all of this extra mandatory work. The Phys Ed department threatened to throw the union at the school board every time the idea was floated, they were worried that they would lose funding if enrollment dropped at all. Speaking of funds, I felt that it was ridiculous to be required to fund raise for a class. We were required to raise several hundred dollars or we were forced to pay out of pocket. To top it all off I didn't get nearly as much musical fulfillment out on the field as I did during wind band. The music was just a cheap prep for some loud would be thrills. I would have loved to skip marching season. But I was unable to. My junior year I was just going skip marching band and take the hit of not be eligible to be in the high school band. I was much happier playing in local community bands. The director then told me that he wouldn't send in my state honor band cd unless I was in band, and that to be in band I had to be in band for marching season too. So I bit the bullet and marched. In an interesting side twist, students were allowed to be in marching band but take other classed besides concert band second semester.
I think that a student should NEVER be required to be in marching band. If I am a high school band director in the future, I will not require students to do both.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:20 am
by The Jackson
Disinterested kids being strong-armed into hours of after-school practice are exactly what a marching band program needs. :roll:


Perhaps they should find out WHY there are 40 marching band kids in a school of 3,200 rather than employ an iron fist. If that happened to me, I would take a walk from that entire band program faster than you can rattle off that hackneyed word "commitment". I echo averagejoe a thousand percent. Leaving school band programs completely and playing in groups and taking lessons on my own was one of the best decisions I've made in my time in music.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:49 am
by b.williams
Band class in high school included marching band and concert band. Jazz band was an invitation only after school option. Marching band used to mean football pregame for home games and part of the halftime show for home games and some of the closer away games. We would march out, stop, play a tune facing the visiting stands, turn around, stop, play a few more tunes facing the home stands and then march off playing our fight song. We did the same pregame every home game and changed music for each home game. Very simple. After the football season we switched to concert band. We tried to sound as good as possible inside and out. BTW, those who played football, myself included, who were in band class were given a pass during football season. That way we didn't have to choose. In my high school the band was just as respected as the football team. From a school poulation of around 800, we had over 100 instrumentalists in the band plus a featured twirler (I just dated myself) and color guard. Today, marching band means competitions, festivals, and contests. That requires a huge time commitment. Marching band used to be a small part of the HS band experience. For some programs it has become the fundamental performance outlet.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:38 am
by pgym
According to this article published on the same date, there are a grand total of 160 kids in the concert band.

Assuming the number (3200) cited in the previously quoted article is correct, I'd say the problems with the music program in the school district goes deeper than just the number of kids in marching band.

Other interesting facts from the linked article that were conveniently(?) not mentioned in the article quoted in the OP:
At the same time, the high school marching band will no longer be participating in competitions.
Under the proposed comprehensive band program, band students would have practice during the school day, for 90 minutes every other day, rather than the after-school practices now required.
[Superintendent Louise E. Donohue] said there also appeared to be a misunderstanding in the amount of school time that would need to be devoted to band; it would be six class periods a week, not nine, as the parents indicated in the power point.
Seems to put things in a rather different light, does it not?

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:58 am
by Tubaryan12
The Jackson wrote:Disinterested kids being strong-armed into hours of after-school practice are exactly what a marching band program needs. :roll:
The problem with most kids today is that they do not understand the basic concept of sometimes, you have to do things you don't want to to get to do the things you do want to do. If you haven't learned that lesson by 9th grade at home, it has to be taught sometime. I'm sure that every football player on the field doesn't want to do two a days in the middle of the summer, but guess what....if you want to play football, you better show up for them. I have no problem with this policy. Trust me: I would rather be on the beach in Cancun each morning than sitting in rush hour traffic each day to go to a place where I deal with dangerous chemicals so that some guy's soda or beer doesn't loose its fizz.

Life ain't alway about what YOU want.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:55 am
by oldbandnerd
'79 to '82 were my high school years. We had to march if we were in band and I despised it. The only way to get out of it was if you were doing something else so I wrestled 2 of my four years. Wrestling practice began just after school began in September and went through to January so I was tottaly exempt from marching those two years.
Wrestleing was fun and I enjoyed it way more that I did marching. I could have played football also but I didn't like practicing in the summer heat. Here in Virginia it stays hot until about half way through the football season.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:10 am
by b.williams
oldbandnerd

I tried to wrestle in HS. Much harder that football. I got my butt whipped every day. Despite being slower, weaker, and less skilful than my opponents, it was a positive experience.......... for them!!! :lol:

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:18 am
by The Jackson
The problem I have with this is how unrelated marching band activities and concert band activities are. Two-a-days suck, but those practices make for a better football team. Summer band camp and after-school practices also suck, but those also make for a better marching band, and I would totally agree with a policy requiring football players and marching banders to attend all of those meetings.

Requiring marching band of students who only want to participate in concert band (a seperate and unrelated activity) is what I disagree with. Outside of a few wacko zealots, many of the marching banders I saw and worked with were only there out of some lukewarm sense of duty, did a half-butt job with everything, and were not particularly fun to be with. (To top it off, the group I was in always got high marks in the competitions and evaluations. I guess it's just me.)


I don't want to practice the tuba every day. I don't want to blow out the same long tones, scales, and etudes all the time, but I know that if I do those things, I will become a better tuba player and if I keep my focus and my ears open, I'll become a better musician. I know the point of this stuff I don't like, so that's why I do it. (So, maybe, in a way, I actually do want to practice every day? I don't know...)

I don't want to come off like another know-it-all kid. How many times do we, on the advice of others, do seemingly strange things whose value is only revealed after the fact? I'm not seeing that with this marching band policy. I see it as strong-arming to put shoes on the field with no regard to the people who fill those shoes. That kind of leadership I never advocate.

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:23 am
by The Big Ben
Tubaryan12 wrote:
The Jackson wrote:Disinterested kids being strong-armed into hours of after-school practice are exactly what a marching band program needs. :roll:
The problem with most kids today is that they do not understand the basic concept of sometimes, you have to do things you don't want to to get to do the things you do want to do. If you haven't learned that lesson by 9th grade at home, it has to be taught sometime. I'm sure that every football player on the field doesn't want to do two a days in the middle of the summer, but guess what....if you want to play football, you better show up for them. I have no problem with this policy. Trust me: I would rather be on the beach in Cancun each morning than sitting in rush hour traffic each day to go to a place where I deal with dangerous chemicals so that some guy's soda or beer doesn't loose its fizz.
There is a direct link between progress as a football player and two-a-day practices. What is the link between being in a marching band and progress as a musician in a concert band?

Re: HS Concert band students required to join Marching Band

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:26 am
by TUBAD83
Any program that has to force people to be in it (especially in a HS with over 3200 students) has serious problems--and usually the problem lies with the person running the program. Forcing someone to play in marching band is a BAD idea--imagine the morale and discipline issues that would surely ensue. It would only make a bad situation worse.

When I was in high school (in the dark ages of the 70s), you could be in any ensemble (beginning, concert, or stage band) without being in marching band. MB back then was basically a student-run organization--we picked the music, designed the shows, selected which parades and contests we would enter--we had a good relationship with the drill team and incorporated them in our contest shows--VERY rare at that time. We were not very large (around 100 members or so) but everyone worked VERY hard to put out the best product possible and had a great time doing it---Im still in contact with most of the folks who made it happen back then.

JJ