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I will very soon have my hands on a gold brass Miraphone 188 (thank you Matt Walters!).

I realized, most of my mouthpiece "game" has been on piston tubas. I kind of don't remember what I tested out back in my rotary days, or what I did/didn't like.

Have recently been using a Mike Finn "H" and a Miraphone TU-31 on my Marzan. Used a Rose Solo for a while too, but didn't prefer that style of rim. I also used a G&W Baer for many years on my old Miraphone 1291.

Curious to hear what other people have been using in their 188's, but of course know that 90% of any problems I have are because of my mouth, not the 'piece.

I am SO excited to get this tuba.

I bought a Sellmansberger Symphony St. shank and haven't looked back, it works fantastic on my 188.

Interesting question...
I just measured a newer 188 and with an American shank... the gap was only about .056....
given that this is a .520 shank... and for every .001 you move from that number you move the mouthpiece .018 in or out of the receiver... neither the American OR the Euro is perfect..
BTW.. The Euro is .538
I've been telling folks to get a Euro shank piece.. What ever brand that may be... then take your horn to a a repairman who has and can operate a lathe... He can remove the receiver and cut back the inside wall to create the proper gap..
I've been setting the piston horns to about .330.
This should get you in the ball park. If you want it a big fatter sounding and less definition, go a bit less gap.. If you want more point to the articulation and bite, go a bit more. a little change will go a long way.. its easy to just put the receiver back on and wrap it with tape to seal it to test before soldering.
good luck,
A Baer

Hey -- I think that's my 188 Mr. Baer is talking about!

He opened my eyes to something that I never even knew was a problem. As a demonstration, he put a small piece of paper around the end of my American shank G&W mouthpiece and had me play. I was completely stunned at the instant improvement in the clarity of the front end of the notes. If that slip of paper can do that, I can only imagine what a true precision adjustment will do!

On a side note, thanks again for coming to our little ol' neck of the woods in Emporia, KS, Mr. Baer! The short time I had with you in the masterclass gave me a LOT to think about, and your playing was fantastic as always!

Thanks, everyone, keep it coming! And thanks Al for the insight about the shanks, maybe I'll check that out after getting a good idea of what else I'm looking for.

Bore is .772 I'm pretty sure-- If you can get your hands on a Schilke # 67, try it--

Alan Baer wrote:I...
BTW.. The Euro is .538
....

Which manufacturer's Euro shank is actually .538"? Euro shanks sized .530" to .535" seem to be infinitely more common than the peculiar measurement of .538" that you mention. Or was .538" just a typo?

Christian Klein

Baer was in Emporia and I didn't know??? AAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!

(sorry...I am fan of Mr. Baer and have approximately 1,000,000 questions for him...)

A Miraphone 188 is a TIGHT horn. The last 3 I had in my shop played themselves regardless of the mouthpiece I used. The last times I played them I used a standard Conn 2, a custom made Helleberg style mouthpiece with a bigger rim diameter and a Conn CKB 25. They all played extremely well.

Also, Phil Black of the Wichita Symphony tried the last one I repaired with I think a GW Stainless Steel (I wanna say Diablo?) and he said that every slot locked right in and all of the registers responded very well.

Alan Baer wrote:Interesting question...
I just measured a newer 188 and with an American shank... the gap was only about .056....
...
A Baer

The last couple of Miraphone 188s that I've had my hands on didn't have fitted receivers, rather, they had a nickel silver "overpart" that had the appearance of the separate receiver, but with the mouthpipe tube itself (rather than a separate receiver) featuring a taper in the end (similar to a French horn mouthpipe) which receives a standard shank (or, maybe barely, a euro shank) mouthpiece.

When did Miraphone start putting receivers on their model 188 CC tuba?

How does one measure a 'gap' between the end of a mouthpiece and the beginning of a mouthpipe tube when the mouthpiece is actually inserted INTO the mouthpipe tube?

Since Matt sold you the tuba, contact him after you've tried the supplied mouthpiece and tell him what you do and don't like about it, what you play now, how different mouthpieces feel to you, and in frank terms your playing pros and cons and breath support. Then Matt will be able to recommend the mouthpiece for you: make, model and (where applicable) cup diameter and rim profile. And if nothing stock will do, Vladimir can take the closest thing and rework the rim for you.

Matt and Vladimir did just that for me when I contacted them about needing an appropriate mouthpiece for my 186 with the retrofit detachable St Pete bell, on which nothing was sounding really good to me. It ended all speculation and mouthpiece "safaris," and saved me a great deal of money if I had simply struck out on a safari on my own with no guidance.

I'm still lovin' my Sidey original SSH. I wasn't a funnel mp fan before I played it, but it really makes the big German horns pop.

cjk wrote:How does one measure a 'gap' between the end of a mouthpiece and the beginning of a mouthpipe tube when the mouthpiece is actually inserted INTO the mouthpipe tube?

He used a little metal rod with a short angle (looked something like this >>> ______________________I ). He inserted it into the receiver until the little piece hit the leadpipe, then measured with a caliper how much of the rod went inside. Then he took that out and inserted my mouthpiece and made a mark on the shank to see how far it went in. Next, he measured that length, and found the difference between the two.

BRSousa wrote:A Miraphone 188 is a TIGHT horn. The last 3 I had in my shop played themselves regardless of the mouthpiece I used.

I've found this to be true, too. I've been able to get a decent sound from any 'piece I've put in my 188 -- it's a very forgiving horn. I've tried lots of mouthpieces, but the ones I've used with enough regularity to tell a difference in the sound and feel are the Miraphone TU-23 (C4), PT-48, G&W Bora (old style), and G&W Bayamo (old style). However, in light of some recent reeducation regarding my approach to my embouchure (my usual large aperture, forceful, manhandling of the horn vs. focusing on resonance resistance management at the mouthpiece and letting the room do the heavy lifting), I've noticed that the mouthpieces with thinner walls do much better at providing an even response from the top of the range to the basement.

Good luck in your search, and have fun with the mind-boggling number of different sounds you can get on your 188 with different mouthpieces!

Just as a clarification..
the measurement of .538 was NOT a mistake... The .530 is not a Euro shank.. this is the measurement that PT mouthpieces use. it's right in the middle. If you look at any Laskey Mouthpiece, or Giddings and Webster piece, the Euro IS .538..
As Far as any of the Miraphones I've worked on.. They all have had a receiver. Yes, it is true that very old Miraphone horns did have a mouth pipe like a french horn, but I personally have not run across this. I recently purchased a 184 from 1961, and it does have a true receiver. And Yes, when I rebuild it, it will be made into a true Euro shank.
Hope this all helps!
Al Baer

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I've got plenty of ideas for what to try, and coupled with what I have "typically" liked in the past, I'll start to make my short list of things to try.

Thanks again!