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I have a new (old....) Sousaphone that I am overhauling. It is currently raw brass and I am trying to figure out whether I should finely polish it or scratch brush it before I lacquer it.

Before pictures can be found here:
http://sousacentral.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -olds.html

Now, I am taking this pole to figure out what I should do, so I WILL do what the poll results suggest (looks like I missed my calling in politics, huh?) so let me know what you think I should do!

NOTE: If the peanut gallery wants a scratch finish, I will mask the engraving and scratch around it OR leave the inside of the bell flare bright.

Feel free to comment...

I would vote for silver plate, but that might price this horn out of buyable price range, so instead I will voice my opinion for high shine with lacquer.

I think you would be very disappointed with the end result if you use the scratch brush which doesn't even match a shot blast matte finish. It would look very amatuerish and home made. Better to leave it raw brass. A professional quality buffed/polished then lacquered finish would be better. If you were silver plating a good matte finish with the engraving masked, or the inside of the bell bright polished would look nice.

B&H / Besson used the shot blasted matte finish silver plate as it was a real labor saver compared to bright polished brass and lacquer

Scratch brush tends to just look cheap and nasty.

In the end it comes down to your preference and how "professional" you want the job to look.

Ken Herrick wrote:I think you would be very disappointed with the end result if you use the scratch brush which doesn't even match a shot blast matte finish. It would look very amatuerish and home made. Better to leave it raw brass. A professional quality buffed/polished then lacquered finish would be better. If you were silver plating a good matte finish with the engraving masked, or the inside of the bell bright polished would look nice.

B&H / Besson used the shot blasted matte finish silver plate as it was a real labor saver compared to bright polished brass and lacquer

Scratch brush tends to just look cheap and nasty.

In the end it comes down to your preference and how "professional" you want the job to look.

I can appreciate your concern about scratch brush vs. a matte finish. The trick is what you use and technique. I wouldn't use a scratch brush, I would use something a tad more aggressive like a scotch brite pad. Just like anything else, it all depends on the amount of time and care you put into the final finish. It would look professional.

It would different from a bead blast finish. I am not going for that look. I have decided that if a scratch finish is the way to go, then I will leave the bell, caps and slide crooks bright.

Here are a few pictures of my last Sousa restore if you are curious...

fairweathertuba wrote:I would vote for silver plate, but that might price this horn out of buyable price range, so instead I will voice my opinion for high shine with lacquer.

I gave this some thought. For me, cost isn't the concern, it is upkeep. Silver would look terrific, but I don't feel like polishing it all the time so I elected for either of these lacquered finishes.

I wouldn't refinish it at all. It won't substantially affect the life expectancy of this souzy, it won't improve resale, and it really won't improve aesthetics. Just leave it as it is.

If the scratch brass finish looks anything like this cornet, I want my Marzan done that way as well:
http://www.quality-brass.com/webstore/satin/oldsamb.htm

Make it all shiny if you're going to sell it.

If you're keeping it, do what you want.

I expect that the most likely buyer of sousaphones are academic institutions which will want a new (or newly fixed up) sousaphone to "match" their existing sousaphones. I sincerely doubt any potential buyers have existing satin lacquer sousaphones.

Seems to me that the "factory" options have been:
(1) shiny lacquer
(2) shiny silverplate
(3) satin silverplate with shiny offsets
(4) white fiberglass

so I'd have to go with #1.

I DO have to say, I REALLY love those old horns with satin silver finish and gold plating IN the bell. Man, I wish I can get a horn like that nowadays!

To me, "scratch brush" means the fairly coarse treatment I have seen in pictures from that leisure-time outfit in Indiana or wherever it is. Usually along with some faux antiquing color and bronze or reddish lacquer. Extremely tacky, in my opinion. Best use of this technique is for lamps and doorknobs and such, and even then it's tacky. If you want tacky, metallic gold spray paint should do it.

I see they may have abandoned that finish, though. Looking over their stuff, I saw a mellophone with a "retro" finish, which looks like very fine scratching that left it with a kind of smeary look, like it was all fingerprints or something. Possibly harder than it sounds, wasn't sure they actually did it to anything but the bell.

Put me down for bright. Color finish if you want something different, though I guess that will look bad pretty fast as it chips off.

iiipopes wrote:I wouldn't refinish it at all. It won't substantially affect the life expectancy of this souzy, it won't improve resale, and it really won't improve aesthetics. Just leave it as it is.

I'm doing it for myself. I don't plan on selling it. I am restoring it for me.

You can't really tell from the first picture I posted, but the finish is GROSS. I am not necessarily concerned with cosmetics BUT it is my opinion that you cannot do good dent work if you can't see the imperfections in the metal. The dark, cruddy finish (that ISN'T an instrument lacquer) prevents me from seeing the imperfections in the metal, so it's got to go!

Step 1: remove funky old lacquer


Step 2: dents....

Donn wrote:To me, "scratch brush" means the fairly coarse treatment I have seen in pictures from that leisure-time outfit in Indiana or wherever it is. Usually along with some faux antiquing color and bronze or reddish lacquer. Extremely tacky, in my opinion. Best use of this technique is for lamps and doorknobs and such, and even then it's tacky. If you want tacky, metallic gold spray paint should do it.

Put me down for bright. Color finish if you want something different, though I guess that will look bad pretty fast as it chips off.

I don't who leisure-time is, so I can't speak about that. I do know that the scratch finish has to be done correctly to look good. Secondly, the degreasing and clean up has to be top notch for the lacquer to look good on top of the scratch finish. If there is ANY dirt left at all, the finish will look cheap.

To do the finish correctly, you should (but don't have to) do it by hand, and be very careful to follow the shape of the tubes and keep the finish uniform.

Personally, after some deep thought, I am really leaning towards a standard high polish finish.

Here are some other issues with a satin lacquer finish: When the lacquer gets worn off in spots, how will you remove the inevitable tarnish so that you can relacquer it? Acid will change the texture, and buffing will remove the satin effect. With a high polish, you can polish out and spot-lacquer in the future and still maintain the "looks good from three feet or more" expectation.

And if you ever have to roll out any dents, you'll also leave marks.

Re-satinizing it will require you to channel your prior state of mind to get the same effect, and also remove a lot more brass.

Edit: The satin brass cornets and trumpets I've been seeing lately look like they have been dipped in ugly. It makes the instrument look heavy, the opposite of "High, Bright, Light, and Clear" as goes the old Canadian Brass album title. If the instrument has earned that old finish through experience, that will come through. Faking it with a piece of ScotchBrite won't. People often hear what they see.

Rick "preferring regular polish" Denney

This is true, Rick.

That is good advice.

MORE IN PROGRESS PICTURES COMING TOMORROW!

Call me crazy, but I like these new different finishes on brass instruments - whether it is brushed brass, satin lacquer, nickel plate, etc - I like It's a nice change from the ole regular lacquer and silver plate...
And just about anything is nicer-looking than ugly tarnished raw brass. Just my opinion.

I was considering a unique finish since I am not concerned with reselling it and because I am patching a few of the branches because some yahoo decided to hang this beautiful creature on a wall with machine screws. People are animals.

New in-progress pictures!
I removed some more dents (but not all yet) and put some patches over the screw holes left by some animal who once hung this creature on a wall...

I agree that people are like animals........just look at all the wild animals that post here
Anyway, it's good to see those holes patched. What type of finish are you gonna do?

I intend on letting the poll go until the project is complete, but it looks like I am going to go with a bright polish lacquered finish.

I should have the body finished and sprayed before the end of the week!