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When I was first trying to learn to play pedal tones (low C and below on my CC) the only way I could do it was to move my embochure to the lower third of the cup, draw in my lower lip, and play the notes with basically all upper lip vibration (this is how horn players tackle their lowest range so I was pretty comfortable with the technique). This would get the pedal tones to speak pretty well, but it really wouldn't work for the notes above them. I always figured this type of shift was sort of a "cheat." It took me quite a while to get my "regular" embochure to extend chromatically down to the pedals, but it gets progressively weaker below a low Eb or so.

The other day I was discussing the pedal and near pedal range with a professional player, and he told me that he used an upper lip shift for the pedals and for two or three notes just above them. I certainly couldn't hear any difference when he played - his sound was consistent throughout the range.

This got me to wondering. Should I work on my shifted embochure and learn to extend it up into the near pedal range? Or should I keep working on building strength and extending the low range of my regular embochure? Perhaps develop both?

How do you handle this difficult but important range?

Yes, I have an embouchure shift between pedal DDD and DDDb. I also have a slight shift between Db and D in the staff as well as G and Ab up in the staff.

I do the exact opposite, it's a bad habit. Very hard to be flexible in the low register.

well, you could keep working on perfection,but u'll prolly b dead before you get it, or, u could do what works, and get to play in front of live audiences... ymmv....

Until last week, I used shift quite a bit from one register to the other, without even knowing I was doing anything wrong. I've managed a pretty decent sound for years doing it that way.

My eyes were opened in the few minutes I spent with Alan Baer. He recognized almost instantly that the aperture of my embouchure got way too big when I went to the low register and did the ol' jaw drop. I, like many, had always heard that I should make things as big and open as possible. I had no idea I was dreadfully wrong, but I was!

"Resistance is control." Those words will stick with me forever, as they instantly made me a better player. During this past week, I have put all my heavy-walled mouthpieces on the shelf, and used the one that provides the most resonance (for me, the most resonant mouthpiece I own at the moment is a TU23). I don't "drop my jaw" anymore. I now concentrate on using the same size aperture for all registers, and only very VERY slightly push my lower jaw forward for a few extreme low register notes.

In this very short time of changing the way I do things, I have noticed huge results. My "fracked" notes have dropped drastically, and my flexibility in pieces with extreme register skips (e.g., the Penderecki Capriccio) has improved seemingly exponentially. Another huge difference is that compared to the way I used to do things, I do not feel like I am working NEARLY as hard now.

I can't wait to see what kind of results I get with a couple of mouthpieces I have my eye one, and eventually to see how my new method transfers to an F tuba when I am finally able to buy one!

@goodgigs

Yes, I wasn't too clear on the range I was referring to - for this discussion I consider the pedal range to be the CCC an octave below the 2nd leger C below the staff - or the open fundamental of my CC tuba. Both my horns have 5 valves so they provide the player the means to play chromatically down the open fundamental.

I do have a practical reason for bringing up the question - my band is preparing Grainger's Lincolnshire Posy for concert (coming up soon) and there are a couple of places that call for a fortissimo low D (5 leger lines below the staff), notably the final chord which is sustained. My current approach, using my "regular" embochure will enable me to play that note at perhaps a mezzo forte, maybe a bit more. For now, I'm sticking with that approach and trying to focus on maximum resonance and efficiency with the air that I have. However, I am curious, for the players who can really belt that note out, how do they do it?

I do not think about low register playing as shift. I do not move my lips vertically in the mouthpiece, but I may "pivot" slightly on those extreme low notes. It is key to use as little pressure on your face to ensure good response in this register.

As Tubaguyry has stated, I also don't drastically drop my jaw any more than I have it open for normal playing. I concentrate on wide & slow air. Control is key: I rarely worry about "belting" notes out in this register. If you are PRECISELY in tune in this register, the note will crystallize the ensemble, and you will achieve the best results possible.

Mark Horne wrote:I do have a practical reason for bringing up the question - my band is preparing Grainger's Lincolnshire Posy for concert (coming up soon) and there are a couple of places that call for a fortissimo low D (5 leger lines below the staff), notably the final chord which is sustained.

By shifting, I can play that D fortisimo. But, the director had better not hold the note too long.

I tried the non-shift aperture approach and have had a lot of success.

It reminds me of some teaching I received years ago in the 80s from an old school Tommy Dorsey era player/teacher. He lived by the Encyclopedia of the Pivot System by Donald Rheinhart which focuses on pivoting the MP versus shifting it up or down vertically. It is an old book but still spot on and applicable in the tuba space as well as higher brass.

Luke

Phil Teele's "Advanced Embouchure Studies" is a great book for developing a relatively shift free style of playing that will let you go all over the place (yes, it was written for bass trombone but most of it still applies.)

As a previuos poster stated, "resistance is control"! Practice playing the "D" in and out of context. Having played "Lincolnshire Posey" and other Grainger works on both amplified 5-String Bass, and or Tuba many times over the years, I really work hard on nailing the pitch without the "settling" most Tubists exhibit. Fortunately, you have that fraction of a second while the overtones line up to adjust, but too much "portamento" effect will be painfull obvious to your audience! If you don't have it nailed by dress rehearsal, then you might want to defer...

Good luck,
Al

Curious - why do they call them "pedal" tones?

hokkmike wrote:Curious - why do they call them "pedal" tones?

Typically any note at or below the fundamental is considered a "pedal tone." So, on a BBb tuba, the first true "pedal tone" is the open BBBb an octave below the "low" BBb. (What I am calling the "BBBb" would be the second lowest note on a typical piano keyboard.)

At one point one of my extraordinary teachers spent about a full semester helping me play into the low register without shifting. It was a very challenging few months but I can now blend smoothly into the low register with my "normal" set up.

A few years later another of my extraordinary teachers helped me gain accurate, immediate and easy control of the shift up through my mid range. This was very weird at first but now I can get that fantastic, gutsy colorful tone easily, immediately and in-tune throughout the low and mid range.

Having both of these tools in my toolbox has proven to be extremely helpful. For example, I will be performing some Bach cello suite movements tomorrow on my PT6, one octave below the printed score. Leaping and blending into and out of the extreme low range is much easier since I am not tied down to just one method of production.

Standing on the shoulders of giants,
-AL

You be the judge of whether there is a shift. Go to the 3 minute mark.

Looks instead like a filling of the mouthpiece than a shift down. Maybe some of you smart guys can set up a poll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsS71W_H ... re=related" target="_blank" target="_blank

I dont really think about it when I play low notes. All I do is open my mouth probabaly 1/2cm longer and use slower air. Guarenteed I will get massive pedal notes every time with that! Dont think about it too much as you will over analyse it and stuff it up!