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And while I'm trying to get up to date... after 40-some years of being away from tubas and bands...

It's a funny thing. When I was a kid in high school, I just picked up that new Miraphone Eb 183-4; played it; and then simply put it away. That was it. I had not the slightest real interest about the tuba - apart from that it was super-cool to play. Now I want to know everything about it. F'rinstance. Only now do I realize that the purpose of the valves and tubes is to have control over the ultimate length of the horn. That's what makes all the differerent notes. Basic stuff. But a revelation.

And today I was blown away when a repair expert informed me that by holding down the (mysterious) 4th valve, you effectively turn the Eb into a (passable?) Bb tuba, complete with the same fingering. Amazing. Who knew?

But I digress...

What I was hoping to solicit from this august, er, March group of tubafilians is the answer to the question "what have I missed over the last forty years?" Like I was even paying attention back then. But go ahead, I have a few minutes. So I mean, the Coles' Notes, just the highlights, big stuff, point-form version.

Have instruments been improved? Or just the opposite?
Do bands use any new instruments? Like (shudder) an electric bass?
Or new inventions: Holographic music for marching bands? iTouch music?
Have any traditional instruments been dropped or gone out of favor?
Am I hearing that Miraphone sound has gone out of favor? (Say it ain't so, Joe.)
Are there any juicy band controversies? (Apart from "has a player ever murdered the conductor on stage?")
Are there still lots of bands/orchestras out there? Or is such uncool now for young'uns?
Does a quintet still have, even after all these years, five members?

That sort of thing. I don't know what I don't know.

Thnx,
RBG

A lot of folks have stated to play again. Piston valves have made a comeback. On line videos have enlightened. On line tuba forums are cool. The CC tuba is no longer the end-all or be-all. The Eb tuba is regaining respect.

I'd say that proffessional tubas have changed for the better over the last 10 years, let alone 40 years.

The last new tuba I bought was a 2145 in 2001. It was a fine horn for me and I really liked it. Having returned to playing after 6 years off, I have to say that I'm pretty blown away by the quality of the tubas that are available. Miraphone and Meinl Weston are making better instruments than ever. I find the response of the newer Miraphone tubas, from the 1292 to the Bruckner to the Petruschka to the Firebird, to be outstanding. Same goes for the Meinl Weston 5450 and 6450. In terms of playability, these models offer excellent response, and reliable intonation. Much less quirky than the previous generation instruments from both manufacturers. Many other companies, like Gronitz, Kanstul, and B&S, are making fine tubas as well.

I would say that the traditional Miraphone 18x sound, while still very popular, has been drowned out by the quality of newer models, many made by Miraphone themselves. I would not say that the Miraphone sound fallen out of favor.

We are quite lucky to be tuba players at this time. There are many, many quality instruments to be had in any of the 4 keys.

Not that it's tuba related, But in the last last 40 years the frumpet came and went.

For those of you that don't know, the frumpet is possibly the worst brass instrument ever conceived...

What you liked as "normal" 40 years ago is now "classic."

bort wrote:What you liked as "normal" 40 years ago is now "classic."

Maybe.

In 1971, the Miraphone of that era was at the top or climbing there, with the juice provided by Roger Bobo driving it. Alexanders were pretty standard big orchestral tubas.

In that era, few played the big American instruments of prior decades, such as the York made famous by Arnold Jacobs. That was mainly because nobody was making them except Holton, and they were making them a handful at a time with little real quality control. It would be 7 or 8 years later when Hirsbrunner measured up the York (after they had to overhaul as a result of a shipping accident) to make a reproduction. And the resulting Yorkbrunner helped re-establish the big American tuba as an orchestral standard, but it certainly did not happen overnight. I remember general giggling from we idiots at a mid-80's Tubachristmas when a young lady brought a Conn 20J that was just about as big as she was--that was still not particularly revered even then. The style of construction represented by the York has become a de-facto standard in the U.S. for professional tubas since then, though--the front-action piston instrument. It has always been there, of course, but now it's the look many want even in smaller instruments.

Now, people are again recalling the classic Miraphone sound of those pre-Miraphone-boom instruments as championed by Bobo. We are also seeing an interest by top pros in large Bb rotary tubas for use with certain works that benefit from that sound. I suspect that in the U.S., the C-tuba dominance has become established enough so that C-tuba players feel no shame in adding other alternatives to their stables. Likewise with Eb tubas, which are now represented by a range of high-end professional models that are not variations on the British Eb compensator.

One other big difference is the standard of performance. What was considered exceptional 40 years ago would not be considered normal among good players. This is bad for amateurs like me; as I have improved, the standard of "decent" has moved faster. Consider the music now thought of as normal solo contest stuff by good high-school players now, which was thought of as difficult college-level stuff decades ago. But that doesn't mean musical wisdom has improved, and if anything there is more focus on technique than musical expression now compared to then.

But playing has gotten louder. As orchestras compete with amplified music, and as people fill their ears with ambient sounds, brass sections have gravitated to bigger instruments and louder playing. This is part of what has fueled the big-tuba popularity, but it means that instead of using a big tuba to make a light touch, we kill ourselves trying to get all of what a big tuba can provide. Over that same time, we've seen a rise in over-use injuries and conditions that have taken down some high-end performers, and I wonder if that correlation can be in part explained by attempts to drive big tubas to their limits.

The new high-end tubas of today play better in tune than their ancient counterparts, but that comparison does not include Miraphones. The Miraphone 186, even from 50 years ago, always showed good intonation. (Alexander was a different story.) But over that time, tubas have become more homogeneous in their sound. Back in the day, the characteristic sound of different instruments was more idiomatic. Many wax nostalgic about the classic Miraphone sound, but few play classic Miraphones in professional ensembles compared to the early 70's.

Rick "thinking we've come full-circle with instrument designs of 70 or 80 years ago to a greater extent than 40 years ago" Denney

Elvis died! His brain , heart, and other major organs are still in storage at Baptist Memorial hospital in Memphis! In addition ,I've still not acquired a taste for "stewed Okra".

I think the biggest thing that has happend is that the level of performance has simply exploded. This generation of players has sweepingly bypassed the last generation. The modern tubist has skills, musicianship and sound quality that was unimaginable 30 years ago. Because of this, tuba builders HAD to improve their instruments. Terms like "stuffy low register" and "bad high Ab" are a thing of the past. A builder who makes a tuba with no low notes, or no Ab, simply will not be in business for very long. This gives us 'old guys' WAY better horns on which to play, than we had in college. I am constantly astounded by the repertoire being performed regularly by undergrad tuba & euphonium students. Rep that was played by the likes of Bobo & Cooley (MY role models) as show pieces, is regularly programmed by undergrads. In the 1970's Dr. Phillips used to say, "The tuba is in a Renaissance." He was right, then. But I believe it it even more true today. In regards to tuba purchases, in college, we had Mirafones and Meinl-Westons. I saw exactly ONE Alexander in my college career. A couple guys had the small piston Conns, and I saw a few rare Marzans. NO ONE owned an F tuba; the 184 was my F tuba. The choices the modern tuba student has are astronomical, by comparison. With the influx of good asian copies, the possibilities have become endless. As 'charming' as those old tubas and euphoniums are, with RARE exceptions, there is NO comparison with the modern instruments currently readily available on the market today.

my 2¢

Don't complain. You missed Disco. You should pay US for having to live through it!

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was complaining. My aim was to give a little historical perspective from my experience....

Are you now complaining that my poor attempt at humor is still going through devlopmental stages, too?

Stainless Steel Mouthpieces.

You can't Take the kids to Magic Mountain in California, then sneak out to try Miraphones in Sun Valley anymore! not for about 30 years! And an aspiring player can get a 5-rotor CC decent enough to take to college for a relative pittance! Mozart's "Turkish March" has been conquered by Ken Amis! Tubas are still made with only 3 valves, (but I refuse to order new ones!), and, yes, EEb axes are on the rise!
Al

geneman06 wrote:Not that it's tuba related, But in the last last 40 years the frumpet came and went.

For those of you that don't know, the frumpet is possibly the worst brass instrument ever conceived...

Not personally acquainted with this instrument, but I know someone who has voiced similar sentiment. Luckily, as noted above, it has become practically impossible to market a bad tuba, so if there has ever been a tuba as bad as the frumpet was, it could only one of those deplorably bad tuba models that were rampant in the ancient history of the instrument.

Very interesting stuff, folks.

Brown Mule wrote:Elvis died! His brain , heart, and other major organs are still in storage at Baptist Memorial hospital in Memphis!

Not a whole lot of difference from the kings in Egypt.

He coulda won a Grammy, (King Tut)
Buried in his Jammies, (King Tut)
Born in Arizona, moved to Babylonia,
King Tut!

(Steve Martin)

Not sure why I felt compelled to do that.

RBG

i hope they got Elvis's organs out of there before they demolished it...

mouthpieces, mouthpieces, mouthpieces...silver plated, stainless steel, titanium, lexan...thin walled, heavy/thick walled...funnel cups, bowl cups, hybrid funnel/bowl cups...small cup diameters, medium cup diameters, large cup diameters... wide rims, medium rims, narrow rims, sharp rims, rounded rims, flat rims...one piece mpcs, screw-rims mpcs...deep cups, medium depth cups, shallow cups...normal throat tapers, reverse throat tapers...large backbores, medium backbores, small backbores.............................................

I'm particularly enjoying the numerous "Play Along" CD resources for tuba that are out there now - esp those from Patrick Sheridan, as well as the Canadian Brass.

Makes practicing a lot more fun!

I started playing 40 years ago. I got much older since then.

windshieldbug wrote:Don't complain. You missed Disco. You should pay US for having to live through it!

What do we want??

Reparations!!

When do we want them??

NOW!!