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Hey everyone,

I already play tuba and electric bass, and I'm interested in adding bass trombone to the mix. I've always loved the sound of trombones, and one more instrument just means more playing opportunities, right?

Ive heard though that some people have trouble switching back and forth between the two embrochures. Can anyone comment on this?

bloke wrote:Your most formidable obstacle will be acquiring reliable slide technique. "Bass trombone" has less to do with "tuba" than "tuba" has to do with "electric bass".

Just wondering, do you do any bass trombone playing?

I played bass trombone for 10 years. It requires lots of slide technique and tonging. I decided to go with tuba full time.

Have you played trombone?

What is your budget?

You might want to consider contra-bass trombone as it would be closer to tuba.

michael gilleran wrote:Hey everyone,

I already play tuba and electric bass, and I'm interested in adding bass trombone to the mix. I've always loved the sound of trombones, and one more instrument just means more playing opportunities, right?

Ive heard though that some people have trouble switching back and forth between the two embrochures. Can anyone comment on this?

If you want to, expect a LOT of work. I worked on bass bone as a doubling instrument for a few years and stopped because I, at the time, was losing too much time on the tuba to sound decent on the bass bone.

As far as embouchures go, you pretty much nailed it with what you wrote. Some people have trouble and others do not. I was in the latter. I will say it was a LOT of fun and I would like to pick it up again as I do not play much tuba anymore. Good luck in your decision!

rodgeman wrote:I played bass trombone for 10 years. It requires lots of slide technique and tonging. I decided to go with tuba full time.

Have you played trombone?

What is your budget?

You might want to consider contra-bass trombone as it would be closer to tuba.

Ive been playing my schools extra bass for a couple days, and my friend has a bass that hes going to lend to me until I leave for college in the fall. At this point, Im not worried about buying an instrument yet, since I dont even know if Im going to stick with it. My teacher just said that some people actually get worse at tuba because they start playing with a trombone embrouchure all the time. I just wanted to know if a lot of people have this issue, and if they were able to overcome it

EDIT: Textuba, when you say a lot of work, do you mean as in a lot of work to learn to play, or a lot of gigs? Im not going to lie, part of the reason I want to add bass trombone is because I know tripling tuba, bass trombone and electric bass is a great combination to get work

If you like playing it then go for it. It will take work to get the slide technique.

Good luck! I hope you enjoy it.

I second the opinion on the Schilke 59 or maybe 60.

rodgeman wrote:If you like playing it then go for it. It will take work to get the slide technique.

Good luck! I hope you enjoy it.

I second the opinion on the Schilke 59 or maybe 60.

Thanks for the recommendation! Btw, the first trigger adds a fourth right? What does the second trigger do?

First trigger is 4th valve (sixth position) and the second is 2+3 valves (5th position). Together you can hit d below the staff. But the positions need to be longer if using the f trigger below the staff.

I consider myself a tuba player, but I make more money (not that I make a lot of it) playing bass trombone. In my area I get gigs because I can show up with a tuba, euph, bass bone, and sometimes even a tenor bone. I love playing my trombone and do not/did not have any issues switching back and forth between the two even on the same gig. Where I run into problems is my slide technique. I'm still not that great and it does take more work than my valved horns but I don't regret the way I went.

Another go for the Schilke 59. It has been my go to mouthpiece for many years though I do carry a couple of others for different situations.

I started on tuba in the sixth grade, took up trumpet on the side two years later, and tenor trombone on the side two years after that. While in college I switched to bass trombone as my primary instrument but continued to not only play trumpet, tenor trombone, and tuba, but many other instruments as well. Still do. I've not had much trouble going from one to another but I've known many who have problems going between two very similar instruments. Even did a production of "My Fair Lady" in which I switched back and forth (sometimes multiple times in a number) between tuba and 2nd horn. Yeah, small piece vs. large piece, small bore vs. large bore, left hand vs. right hand, transposed treble clef vs. non-transposed bass clef, horn embouchure vs. tuba embouchure. A lot of it is keeping the instruments up which can make the "gear change" relatively quick and easy.

Bass trombone is fun but it can be a lot of work. Make sure you play all three instruments regularly (preferably daily) so you can change from one to the other as SOP. As for what the second valve on a bass trombone does, it depends on the horn. There are dependent/stacked setups in which the second valve only works when the first valve is engaged and there are independent/inline setups in which either valve can be used by itself as well as in conjunction with the other. And there are varying combinations in each setup. I have both stacked and inline double-trigger bass trombones. My stacked Reynolds Contempora came stock as Bb/F/E but I got one of twelve factory-made extensions to make it Bb/F/D and the only factory-made extension to make it Bb/F/Eb. Combined, the two extensions can make it Bb/F/Db or pulled to Bb/F/C. My primary usage was Bb/F/D. My inline Olds came stock as Bb/G/F/Eb with switchable tuning slides which will allow Bb/Gb/F/D as described by the other poster. It also has a separate (optional) piece of tubing to put in place of the second valve tuning slide to produce Bb/F/Eb/C or pulled to Bb/F/D/B. I generally use it in the Bb/G/F/Eb configuration.

I'd tend to agree with the mouthpiece recommendations. I've used a Schilke 60 for so many years I've forgotten how long it has been. I've known a lot of 59 players too. Great bass bone pieces.

Hi! I was pressed into service on Bass 'Bone as a college freshman! The paddles(think 4th valve and old school 5th valve) helped ENORMOUSLY! I NEVER had to find 5th position! LOL! Try the Schilke 59, 60, or even a 1-1/2 G! I may be selling an axe soon, so PM me if you're interested.
Good luck,
Al

Lots of good replies. I studied trombone and euphonium as an undergraduate in college and I learned tuba as a Navy musician after graduating from college. Slide technique and valve technique each have their own challenges and rewards. Practice each as much as possible and try to sound as good as possible on whatever you are playing. Focus on your sound and any embouchure differences will take care of themselves. Good luck!!!!!!

With bass trombone, you have to remember a couple of things to make it work well.

1. Every position will not be in the same place every time, if you are going to be in tune with the group. This is the same concept as having to adjust a tuning slide on 1st valve to play 4th or 5th partial notes on your tuba. This is also true when you use the triggers. Most novice players use embouchure to fix tuning problems at the expence of clarity of tone.

2. One must know your role in the ensemble. Yes there is a different role for a bass trombonist in a group as opposed to the tuba/bass instrument. Keeping that in mind usually helps keep a gig. Being able to go from heavy bass line blaster to low tenor line player has to be automatic.

Consider having an arsenal of two mouthpieces. One that you use for times when you have to play in the tenor range, such as church gigs where you are one of three players, and you get stuck with above the staff and tenor clef high parts all through the performancees, and one that you use most of the time for middle and low below the staff playing. These mouthpieces should be close to each other in rim and cup characteristics, but will help you accomodate each area mentioned above.

I will be flamed for this suggesion, but I will speak form experience. I play many bass trombone gigs that will stick me with a book that goes 4+ octaves from piece to piece. I carry a Doug Elliott bass trombone setup for my normal bass bone parts. It gives me a Schilke 60+ rim size and a 58-59 backbore and shank to focus the air a little more. When I have high parts, I change to a Schilke 57 to help me not have to work as much to play higher.

Yes, many professional bass trombonist can play that 4 octave range on one mouthpiece. They do not double on tuba, and practice their range longer than I practice everything I have to play in one day.



Good luck, and being proficient on more instruments does make you more desirable when hiring.

I've been making a casual effort to pick up bass trombone, and reading the comments of trombone players in their on-line forum, I pick up a similar sentiment about trying to play the high range of the bass trombone with a 60-size mouthpiece. I don't know how many of them solve the problem with multiple mouthpieces, but I think the currently popular perspective is that most players should be playing a middle of the road mouthpiece like the Bach 1 1/2G. There's a certain common sense appeal to that idea. If it seems like you'd be doomed on the extreme low end with such a mouthpiece, well, there's every reason to think that the extreme ends of the range are going to take some extra practice.

On the Schilkes specifically (which weirdly seem to be much more popular here than there) - they apparently used to make bass trombone mouthpieces with a significantly longer shank (than Bach.) That may have been long enough ago that we're unlikely to run into one, or a trombone that needs one, but just FYI in case you run into that shank mismatch problem.

Donn wrote:I've been making a casual effort to pick up bass trombone, and reading the comments of trombone players in their on-line forum, I pick up a similar sentiment about trying to play the high range of the bass trombone with a 60-size mouthpiece. I don't know how many of them solve the problem with multiple mouthpieces, but I think the currently popular perspective is that most players should be playing a middle of the road mouthpiece like the Bach 1 1/2G. There's a certain common sense appeal to that idea. If it seems like you'd be doomed on the extreme low end with such a mouthpiece, well, there's every reason to think that the extreme ends of the range are going to take some extra practice.

On the Schilkes specifically (which weirdly seem to be much more popular here than there) - they apparently used to make bass trombone mouthpieces with a significantly longer shank (than Bach.) That may have been long enough ago that we're unlikely to run into one, or a trombone that needs one, but just FYI in case you run into that shank mismatch problem.

The instrument and the mouthpiece determine the bulk of what the instrument is going to sound like. One may be able to play high first trombone parts on a big bass trombone and "toilet bowl" mouthpiece, but it won't SOUND like a first trombone. Likewise, one may be able to play bass trombone parts on a medium bore tenor trombone with a trigger and a mid-sized mouthpiece, but it won't SOUND like a bass trombone. One may be able to play the tenor tuba part of "Jupiter" on a 6/4 and a Helleberg mouthpiece, but it won't SOUND like a tenor tuba. Hey, a 4/4 BBb and a 4/4 CC using the same mouthpiece don't even sound quite the same! It's always best to have the right tools for the job and even a small mouthpiece on a big horn won't have the right sound for those first parts. If that's all you have, of course, then that's the way it is.

Some older instruments - and I'm thinking Olds in particular - had different leadpipe configurations than the ones that are pretty much standard today. I have a Schilke 60 bass bone mouthpiece that I've had for decades and works just fine in my 1977 Olds P-24G. One year, a few years ago, at the NAMM show I went to stick it into a new horn and it wouldn't go all the way in. Found a few others like that as well. So now I have a newer Schilke 60 and the shank is shorter and it fits the newer instruments just fine.

Well, Im not exactly into the idea of multiple mouth pieces. My mindset has always to get the job done with as little unnecessary gear as possible. So, tubenet is in consensus that the shilke is the best do-it-all mouthpiece?

I probably use my 59 for about 90% of my trombone playing. I do carry a Denis Wick 0AL that I use if I'm covering other parts, but it is usually because of blend rather than size and I have a LOUD LM35 (think that's it) that is just a beast of a bowl. It only gets used if I'm covering a very low bass bone part. I love it for those occasional parts, but it does not get used often.

normrowe wrote:It's always best to have the right tools for the job and even a small mouthpiece on a big horn won't have the right sound for those first parts.

Well, of course. But those of use who are relatively new to the instrument might be a little fuzzy even on what exactly is the job, let alone what tools are right for it. We know it isn't often 1st trombone, but ... I don't know, I just have seen a few accounts of bass trombone players backing off from the 60 size bowls in favor of something that supports the high range better. So their sense of the right tool may be different - as for sure it should be if their lips, teeth etc. aren't all identical - or they're really looking at different jobs, which I think is a more interesting question.

michael gilleran wrote:So, tubenet is in consensus that the shilke is the best do-it-all mouthpiece?

If I can, I would like to wreck that consensus. If the best do-it-all mouthpiece isn't the Bach 1 1/2G, it has to be at least a toss-up. Notice how many mouthpiece makers offer a bass trombone mouthpiece called 1 1/2 or 1.5 - it has to be easily the most popular bass trombone mouthpiece, counting all the imitations. I want to try a Schilke 59 one of these days, but I know there are plenty of bass trombone players who don't like that mouthpiece. If I wanted something in the 60 range, I would look for a more modern one, like one of the larger Ferguson models or a Yeo replica. (Well, I would also look at the Marcinkiewicz models, but the above mentioned are supported by more feedback from players. And of course, if I were serious, it would be smart to initiate a conversation with Doug Elliott.)

I played a Bach 1 1/2GM when I played full time bass trombone with a Bach Strad 50B3.
I suggested the Shilke 60 as it would be closer to a tuba mouthpiece.
It is a interesting conversation though.