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KiltieTuba wrote:
Specifically, how do harder metals like rhodium, palladium, ruthenium, platinum, and titanium affect the sound?

What reasons do you have for believing they would have any effect, at all?

KiltieTuba wrote:

sloan wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:
Specifically, how do harder metals like rhodium, palladium, ruthenium, platinum, and titanium affect the sound?

What reasons do you have for believing they would have any effect, at all?

Well, why have a titanium plated mouthpiece or gold plated or silver plated or any type of plating? It surely changes the sound, right?

What reasons do you have for believing that?

i would think (note the word "think" that they're would be slight differences

What reasons do you have for not?

Homerun wrote:What reasons do you have for not?

Physics.

KiltieTuba wrote:

sloan wrote:

Homerun wrote:What reasons do you have for not?

Physics.

Would you please expand on this?

Mouthpiece: thick

Plating: thin

Difference: negligible

Now...*feel*, and "allergy" and "corrosion"....those are all things that are affected by PLATING. But, resonance? Sorry, no.

bloke wrote:I'll have something for Dr. Sloan to see when he comes here fairly soon.

Is it soup, yet?

Posting in this thread.

sloan wrote:
Mouthpiece: thick

Plating: thin

Difference: negligible

Now...*feel*, and "allergy" and "corrosion"....those are all things that are affected by PLATING. But, resonance? Sorry, no.

Why the different plating options on bells only, specifically trombones?

Homerun wrote:Why the different plating options on bells only, specifically trombones?

That is not different plating options, but bells made from different metals. Gold brass, rose brass and red brass bells are commonly put on trombones to make a difference to the sound to suit the player. A friend who recently bought a Rath custom trombone tried bells made of the different materials and found they did make a real difference in warm, tone and projection of the instrument. Although changing the metal of the whole instrument has the larger effect, changing just the bell will have much of the effect at lower cost.

However, plating is something different - a very very thin coating of another metal over the top for cosmetic, or durability reasons as an alternative to lacquer. Logic would be that plating makes much less difference to the sound than the actual base metal, although must have some effect.

sloan wrote: Physics.

Mouthpiece: thick

Plating: thin

Difference: negligible

Now...*feel*, and "allergy" and "corrosion"....those are all things that are affected by PLATING. But, resonance? Sorry, no.

Sloan -

This is music to my ears! Perfect.

I would agree that the thickness in the plating is not enough to make a huge difference in sound when compared to other features that really will change the sound like: Bell shape and flare, overall design, rate of taper, bore size, metal wall thickness, metal composition (non plating related), mouthpiece choice, player aptitude, player physicality and so on. In my opinion, these all have a greater effect than plating.

The real question to ask is why choose one finish over another. I have always liked lacquered instruments for maintenance reasons. Mostly because you can wipe them with a clean cloth diaper and get on with your day.

Silver requires some upkeep, but as long as you wipe your fingerprints off and properly store your horn in a case, it isn't that bad.

Gold is great because it resists corrosion and doesn't tarnish like silver, but gold is prohibitively expensive. It is really hard to pin down cost on gold plate because the price changes with daily market value. Sloan is right that gold is great for mouthpieces for people who have silver allergies.

As far as I know, unless you special order a horn, only St. Petersburg horns come in standard nickel plate. Some people like nickel because it doesn't tarnish like silver, but after a while it becomes dull and if it breaks it will start to flake off. It is for those reasons (and the look) that I personally don't like nickel plated instruments.

This is an interesting question. When you apply critical thinking to it, you realize that in the grand scheme of things the finish has very little effect compared to other factors. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...

Neptune wrote:

Homerun wrote:Why the different plating options on bells only, specifically trombones?

That is not different plating options, but bells made from different metals. Gold brass, rose brass and red brass bells are commonly put on trombones to make a difference to the sound to suit the player. A friend who recently bought a Rath custom trombone tried bells made of the different materials and found they did make a real difference in warm, tone and projection of the instrument. Although changing the metal of the whole instrument has the larger effect, changing just the bell will have much of the effect at lower cost.

However, plating is something different - a very very thin coating of another metal over the top for cosmetic, or durability reasons as an alternative to lacquer. Logic would be that plating makes much less difference to the sound than the actual base metal, although must have some effect.

Ah yes... I knew this and still used a terrible example. But I would think that it would have some effect, just like the difference between lacquered and unlacquered. I can't prove it, and I don't know it, but thats what I think. If you listen close enough, you can even tell the difference between someone playing with the horn in their lap, and someone playing with the horn on a stand.

bloke wrote:I'm going to see which instrument sounds the best.

The one that you're playing. The rest, apart from any possible sympathetic vibration, will be silent.

Maybe I need to quit splitting hairs and go practice...

Homerun wrote:If you listen close enough, you can even tell the difference between someone playing with the horn in their lap, and someone playing with the horn on a stand.

+1

I've alaways thought this about instrument/mouthpiece plating.
Silver looks cool on Trumpets and Euphoniums.
Lacquer looks cool on Tubas, and Trombones. French Horns can go either way.
Gold plated mouthpieces feel the best on my face.
That's it.

sloan wrote: Now...*feel*, and "allergy" and "corrosion"....those are all things that are affected by PLATING. But, resonance? Sorry, no.

Well, and feel implies that there may be physical differences very near the embouchure, hence real potential to affect performance. Still not resonance, and in any case it baffles me why anyone would be interested in the resonance properties of a mouthpiece.

Even the tuba itself ... if you rap your knuckle on a tuba, does the sound that comes forth have much to do with the sound you hope to hear from the bell? I don't know, maybe it's of some interest, but hardly the major factor it is with something like a string bass or cello, where the sound is really coming from that wood. Coincidentally, I just happened to be looking at a picture of an Alcoa aluminum string bass this morning. Beautiful instrument, really, but rumor has it, wood is really better for sound. In fact, perhaps carbon fiber is better for sound - not as good as wood, but there seems to be a market for carbon fiber basses - and you can make a tuba bell from carbon fiber, so ...

KiltieTuba wrote: Surely there must be a reason for doing this? Or is it simply because of looks and cost?

I think the biggest reason they do different platings is for the players. It feels to me like the different plating has more of a placebo affects on the sound. If you were to get a tuba plated in the Cannonball black nickel laquer it probably wouldn't sound any different than a silver nickel plated one unless it gives the player a different sound concept. I feel this also carries over between laquer/gold/silver/etc.
I would be interested as to whether or not a tuba could be made out of wood. I've seen a wooden piccolo trumpet online, so obviously it's been done somewhere. Could such a large scale actually work?
For that matter, why are we stuck on metal for brass instruments? I know that fiberglass is less resonant than brass, but has anyone searched for anything that would increase resonance?

Neptune wrote:

Homerun wrote:Why the different plating options on bells only, specifically trombones?

That is not different plating options, but bells made from different metals. Gold brass, rose brass and red brass bells are commonly put on trombones to make a difference to the sound to suit the player.

Actually, some brass wind instrument makers offer any of their bells in raw brass, lacquer, or gold-, sliver-, or copper-plate.

And, for what it's worth, Edwards claims that their

finishes create a variety of looks, but more importantly, each has unique playing charactersistics.

KiltieTuba wrote:
This thread is based on a brass instrument with plating, please stay on topic. To answer you question on resonance, carbon fiber has a more resonant quality than fiberglass and in some cases brass. There's a company that makes CF violins and cellos, and there have been a few examples of CF bells and bottom bows on tubas - Canadian Brass...

Physician, heal thyself.