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I know this is a little off subject, but please bear with me.

My wife will be finishing her Masters in flute performance in a month and has started to consider enlisting. Both of us have many questions about this and rightfully so; this is life changing event and neither one of us want to take it lightly. Her biggest question is what are the differences in the each branch musically (other than the obvious sea, air and land…)? We’ve checked out the websites and are finding out that the audition requirements are greatly different between branches. For example, the Air Forces requirements look very similar to any major symphony or DC bases band audition. The requirements for the army on the other hand look to be more geared toward someone coming out of high school or undergrad. Is this an indicator of the performance ability of the groups? Are their more bands in the army? What about the navy? Please don’t take any of this the wrong way; I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes. This is all very new to us and we are trying to get a better idea of what is available. I know there are people on this forum that have served/are serving in a musical capacity in the military and I would GREATLY appreciate any comments that you have.

Thank you,

Patrick Haymore

Hi Patrick,

Start here:

search.php?keywords=military+band&terms ... mit=Search" target="_blank

spend some time looking around, and then come to us with a more specific question. Lots of military band types on this board. There are big differences between the services, and also a lot in common.

I guess I don't know quite what you mean when you ask "... what are the differences in the (sic) each branch musically..."

Karl "who could write a book on this subject but doesn't have the time now" H.

I guess I don't know quite what you mean when you ask "... what are the differences in the (sic) each branch musically..."

It was a nice way of saying, is there one branch that is better than the rest.

I didn't want to say it in those terms, but...yeah. Thanks for the link. I will check it out with my wife as soon as I get home from work!

Patrick

bloke wrote:From what I hear (in spite of perceived "being in the military" and "basic training" issues), competition for military band jobs (from bases to D.C.) is stiff.

Several years ago when I was trying to get into the military, I was told that one of the differences is that with the Marines, you're a Marine first, then a bandsman. With the others, you're a bandsman first, then a soldier/sailor/etc. From what I heard of the Great Lakes "Boot Camp" band that played when our son graduated from Boot Camp, to get started you don't have to be really good. To stick around may be another story and definitely to get to the upper echelon bands it's truly comparable to getting into a top professional band or orchestra. The top bands will go to conservatories and recruit folks from there. A college friend of mine went into the top Navy band when they came recruiting at the New England Conservatory and he played in it for several years.

The Air Force has 10 stateside bands (two of which is designated a premier band), 4 overseas bands, and 11 Air National Guard bands. Contrast that with the Army, which has 35 Active (four designated premier), 18 Reserve, and 53 National Guard bands, the Marine Corps, which has a total of 15 bands (one premier), the Navy, which has 10 stateside (two premier) and 3 overseas bands, and the Coast Guard which has one band (premier). [Numbers take from the respective Service's websites:

AIr Force: http://www.bands.af.mil/" target="_blank
Army: http://bands.army.mil/" target="_blank
Coast Guard: http://www.uscg.mil/band/default.asp" target="_blank
Marine Corps: http://www.marines.com/main/index/makin ... ions/music" target="_blank
Navy: http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/ ... NavyBands/" target="_blank
]

So, given the significantly greater number of positions the Army needs to fill, it's not surprising (or at least, shouldn't be surprising) that, at first blush, the Air Force's requirements appear to be more rigorous than the Army's. Don't be fooled by first appearances, though: as one moves up the ladder of a service's hierarchy, the requisite playing standards between services approaches parity. So while a recent HS or college grad might pass an audition for a lower echelon Army, Army Reserve, NG or Air NG band, the odds of him or her being invited to, much less winning, an audition for a position in a premier band are infinitesimal.

pgym wrote:Don't take legal advice from a lawyer on the Internet. I'm a lawyer but I'm not your lawyer.

So I shouldn't take that advice???

normrowe wrote:

bloke wrote:From what I hear (in spite of perceived "being in the military" and "basic training" issues), competition for military band jobs (from bases to D.C.) is stiff.

Several years ago when I was trying to get into the military, I was told that one of the differences is that with the Marines, you're a Marine first, then a bandsman. With the others, you're a bandsman first, then a soldier/sailor/etc.

I realize that people like to point out the Marines as the personification of a (generic term here, I know how they hate being called that!) soldier, but there are a hell of a lot of other military folk out there as well!
The same is true (with appropriate name substitutions) for the Army and I believe, from what I saw at joint service AIT, the Navy. I cannot speak for the Air Force and Coast Guard. I -think- their bands may be "more musical less soldier" but that is mostly a guess. Army band people have pass rifle qualifications and PT tests though premier band folk may be exempt from the rifle qualification (?). Army warrant officers and officers qualify on the pistol.

I don't mind the physical fitness tests and enjoy the firearms qualifications (mostly rifle for enlisted, occasionally there's a chance to qualify on others). I spend about half of my time doing general soldier tasks- inventory, PT stuff (grading it if I'm not taking it), various soldier skills learning and re-inforcing,... I like doing that stuff; they are important skills and define a soldier/sailor/...

All Army band folk go through general basic training. No matter what band you get into, if you don't pass basic you're not going anywhere. I think the premier band people skip advance training (at Norfolk, Virginia on a Navy post; Army, Navy, and Marine musicians go there). I believe all Marine musicians except for the President's Own go through their 3 stage training- basic, infantry, and advanced.


I'm very curious as to what the President's Own folk do for orientation and how their day to day operations and military conduct compare to the average Army/Navy/Marine band.

I was part of The Sixth Army Band at Presidio San Francisco in the early 80's and attended the School of Music in late 83 early 84. If your wife is a performance grad she won't benefit from the school and will be sent to a band early. Flunking out of the School is no joke. You become a combat soldier, marine or a sailor. I had a Marine friend who didn't pass his final jury and ended up on the bottom floor of the marine barracks that was bombed October 23, 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon. Even as the Sixth Army HQ band we had a secondary combat mission of service and could be expected to enter that roll at any time. It never happened to us but, some bands over the years have been ordered into the field and didn't play for weeks at a time simply because a general didn't like the band. Others were stuck only doing changes of command and retirement gigs until they had to jump out of a plane. Stay away from the line bands for this reason. Wait for an opening in a premier band, a position that will give her the designation as a "Special Bandsman", they don't have any combat role, or don't do it.

Thank you all for your comments. This is very helpful. I do have another question though. If she does choose to enlist, how should she do it? Will any recruiter work or is there someone that she should contact that deals with musicians?

Patrick

phaymore wrote:Thank you all for your comments. This is very helpful. I do have another question though. If she does choose to enlist, how should she do it? Will any recruiter work or is there someone that she should contact that deals with musicians?

Patrick

If she wants to be in a "special band," i.e. Washington, D.C., or an Air Force band, each band does their own recruiting and announcements. If she would like to be in a regular Army, Navy, Marine Corps band, any recuiter should be able to set up an audition.

Gilligan wrote:I was part of The Sixth Army Band at Presidio San Francisco in the early 80's and attended the School of Music in late 83 early 84. If your wife is a performance grad she won't benefit from the school and will be sent to a band early. Flunking out of the School is no joke. You become a combat soldier, marine or a sailor. I had a Marine friend who didn't pass his final jury and ended up on the bottom floor of the marine barracks that was bombed October 23, 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon. Even as the Sixth Army HQ band we had a secondary combat mission of service and could be expected to enter that roll at any time. It never happened to us but, some bands over the years have been ordered into the field and didn't play for weeks at a time simply because a general didn't like the band. Others were stuck only doing changes of command and retirement gigs until they had to jump out of a plane. Stay away from the line bands for this reason. Wait for an opening in a premier band, a position that will give her the designation as a "Special Bandsman", they don't have any combat role, or don't do it.

This is exactly why I have never liked the army's band classification system. IMO, it fosters a "I'm BETTER than you division/post band losers and I'm WAY too good to learn how to be a soldier GASP!!" attitude. When Pershing's Own came to Killeen TX (back when I was stationed there in the 80's) they did not set foot on Ft Hood visit either the TWO bands stationed there--needless to say, only a handful attended their concert after that very noticeable slap.

Every soldier/bandsperson should be trained to eventually play in ANY US Army, be it Pershing's Own or the 9th Army Band at Ft Wainwright Alaska and should serve at least one tour of duty in a division band. This will help separate those truly want to serve their country from those who just want to play their axe and pickup a paycheck and have no desire to be soldier.

J "Its called THE MILITARY for a reason" J

I understand that the premier bands (DC, West Point, etc.) have their own announcements and auditions, but are you saying that ALL Air Force bands also have their own announcements/auditions?

Patrick

Here is my advice:

Take a few DC auditions, see how your wife fares. When I was looking to enlist, I was a finalist for Pershings own many years ago. In the final round there were 5 of us out of over 60 that were invited when they started to tell us about the perks. All I heard was student loan repayment program and my audition was over as I did not care if I got the job or not because I knew I would be on the plane to basic and 17 days later I was. After Basic, I went to the school of music, graduated early, and then stayed on to be the tuba instructor for the next 5+ years teaching Army, Navy and Marines. At the school of music the most talent came from the Army and Navy recruits as the greater percentage had some form of advanced education. No disrespect to the Marines but most Marine musicians joining were right out of HS so the talent was not as developed.

Here is how I rate each service:
1. All DC bands are without a doubt the best but to get one you have to be a sight reading animal to the extreme.
2. Runner's up are the academy bands, these are permanent positions
3. Air force field bands, these seem to be more permanent positions with very little transferring.
4. Navy field bands,
5. Army field bands
6. Marine field bands

Bottom line, if your wife has student loans, take the Army as they will pay them off within three years. If she does not have studen loans, then tell her to go to grad school, jack up the loans, put the money in the bank but do not spend it. Join the Army and in three years the cash will be free.

phaymore wrote:I understand that the premier bands (DC, West Point, etc.) have their own announcements and auditions, but are you saying that ALL Air Force bands also have their own announcements/auditions?

Patrick

From what I've seen, yes. I'm sure someone will correct my if I'm wrong.

normrowe wrote:... From what I heard of the Great Lakes "Boot Camp" band that played when our son graduated from Boot Camp, to get started you don't have to be really good.

Being at US Navy Band Great Lakes, I have to chime-in on this one.

Recruit Training Command (Navy boot camp) assembles it's own band of recruits specifically for performing at recruit graduations. This IS NOT an official Navy band. These are recruits who were asked if they every played/listened to/heard of music and answered yes to whomever was yelling at them at the time. These bands almost always sound bad.

As a brass player, the minimum standard for any Navy fleet band is a highly competent player with at least a bachelor's in music. Many coming into the program recently also have a master's degree.