TubeNet

I'm planning to add a tuba to my stable of instruments and could use a little advice. I'm a trumpet player that made the switch to euphonium, using TC fingerings. I'd like to switch over to a CC tuba to preserve my brain-locked fingerings (C=open, F=1st valve, etc) and to make it easier to play along with church music that's written in C. I'm looking for a 3/4 tuba for size considerations, with piston valves (I'm used to taking care of piston valves), and I'm hoping to keep the price down to $4K or less. I'm willing to look at Chinese instruments, but my previous experience with these instruments (trumpets, euphs) revealed valve speed to be their Achilles heels. Any suggestions about potential instrument candidates would be most appreciated. I'd also appreciate advice on which mouthpiece to use as a starter in transitioning my lips to the tuba. Many thanks!!

If you are intent on not learning a different set of fingerings, get an Eb tuba (at least 4 valves) and you will be able to use yout trumpet fingerings, more or less. But, the Sharp/Flat paradigm changes. Still, what appears to you to be "C" (really Eb, in bass clef) will be open and you go from there. btw, this is true whether you read bass clef or treble clef transposed to Eb on an Eb tuba.

I would suggest a Josef Lidl Model 701, available in both BBb and CC versions. This is a Czech-made 3/4 size, has 4 rotary valves, a 16.5" bell, weighs about 16 lbs., but plays larger than it looks. Steve Feguson at Hornguys (CA) sells them, about $4.5K new with a hard case. I own the BBb version (bought from Lee Stofer about five years ago when they were only $2.8K new). They can be a bit hard to get hold of, but well worth it.

As a former trumpet player who switched to euphonium and finally found my true calling as a tubist, I strongly urge you to seriously consider the following:

a) Getting a BBb horn and b) learn bass clef asap. BBb fingering is consistent with euph and trumpet--just have to transpose to bass clef and you would be among the VERY few tubists who can play in both clefs.

JJ

If it's just part-time playing that you're looking for, I'd go for an Eb, adjust the key signature (add 2 #'s), and you're good to go. It's not even that much of a change from euphonium to Eb, and Eb's are not as popular as other keys for full-time tubists (who most often go for BBb, CC, or F). Further more, since the transition from trumpet/baritone is so easy, they were very popular with school band directors, so picking up a used one cheap that is "3/4" size is very, very possible.

If you are going full time to tuba, I'd recommend just biting the bullet and learning bass clef and BBb or CC fingerings together, since you really need to play what you see naturally and not go through a complicated transposition routine.

Whatever mouthpiece feels good is right for you. Try a bunch, see if you can try out friend's, or just mug a tubist in a bar and take theirs. There is an enormous range of huge to big to average to small made, and the only way to find out what's right for yourself is jump in. Start with anything, then come back asking for recommendations in the direction that you want to go. You'll still get 10,000 different recommendations, but at least they'll most likely be more consistent.

Please forgive my ignorance, but as I look at a CC tuba fingering chart, it reflects the fingerings I'm used to playing on TC euph or trumpet... "C" (two ledger lines below the staff) is open, "F" is 1st valve down, etc. I know that C on the bass clef staff is located in a different position than C on the treble clef staff, but that isn't a problem for me, since I switch from reading bass to treble clef and back when using my electronic wind controller. I'm just so hard-wired to trumpet fingerings, I'm afraid I'll spend more time developing new fingering patterns than I will learning to make a decent sound. Please correct me if I've got the basics badly wrong... the main reason I'm consulting this crowd of experts is to avoid making a pretty sizable investment in an instrument that I will end up sticking in a corner out of frustration. Many thanks to all!

You are going to have to learn bass clef no matter what. You won't find TC parts for tuba like you can for euphonium. That said, as a person who converted from french horn to tuba. I first got a BBb tuba, because of price and availability, and while I was able to adjust to the fingerings I never got over the feeling that they were "wrong". I then got a CC tuba and have been very comfortable and at ease with the fingerings every since. Don't even give the Eb tuba a second thought, the whole "modified key signature" becomes a massive PITA when accidentals come into play.

You are on the right track, get a CC and you will not regret it. Options to consider, Conn 2J/3J, Cerveny CC of some sort, 186 CC. All used of course and you will be within your budget.

If you had to play by ear, BBb will make the easiest transition from trumpet or euphonium. I switched from trumpet and MY brain works better when I'm only thinking pitch, not the name of the note. If YOUR brain works better with the name of the note, then CC is the answer.

Pat S wrote:Please forgive my ignorance, but as I look at a CC tuba fingering chart, it reflects the fingerings I'm used to playing on TC euph or trumpet... "C" (two ledger lines below the staff) is open, "F" is 1st valve down, etc. I know that C on the bass clef staff is located in a different position than C on the treble clef staff, but that isn't a problem for me, since I switch from reading bass to treble clef and back when using my electronic wind controller. I'm just so hard-wired to trumpet fingerings, I'm afraid I'll spend more time developing new fingering patterns than I will learning to make a decent sound. Please correct me if I've got the basics badly wrong... the main reason I'm consulting this crowd of experts is to avoid making a pretty sizable investment in an instrument that I will end up sticking in a corner out of frustration. Many thanks to all!

I had compared fingerings for both and you are correct--just think trumpet fingering and that will definitely work. (Just stay away from BBb tuba (unless you can keep all straight in your head!)

J "well I be damned he's right!" J

I don't think the OP realises what we are saying about the EEb tuba.

By sheer coincidence if you find a part written at concert pitch in bass clef and the same part written out in treble clef transposed for EEb tuba (brass band style) and you cover up the clefs and key signatures on both parts you will find yourself looking at the same music on both pieces of paper.

You will not find anything about this in fingering charts. Because of this coincidence some one who is used to playing EEb tuba from treble clef (using trumpet fingerings) can play from a bass clef part simply by pretending that it's written in treble clef and changing the key signature.

It works the other way as well. Someone who plays EEb tuba from bass clef parts can play a brass band EEb tuba part by pretending that it's their familiar bass clef and changing the key signature.

The way this works for a trumpet player picking up an EEb tuba and playing from a bass clef part is as follows.

The first note on the part is Eb one ledger line below the stave.
Ignore the clef and just focus on the fact that the note is the first ledger line below the stave.
Pretend you are reading treble clef.
The first ledger line below the stave is low open "C".
Play low open "C". Of course low "C" on EEb tuba will sound a bit lower than low open "C" on trumpet.
Apply the same thinking to every note.

Key signature.
When you see a scale in bass clef that starts on the first ledger line below the stave it will probably be an Eb major scale and you will find three flats in the key signature. If you ignore the clef and pretend that it's treble clef that same scale starting on the first ledger line below the stave is going to look an awful lot like a C major scale which is what you play - C major using trumpet fingerings.
The point here being that as well as pretending that you are looking at treble clef instead of bass clef you have to pretend that the key signature is different as well. The rule of thumb here is to add three sharps or equivalent. (Removing a flat from a flat key signature is the same action as adding a sharp to a sharp key signature).

I've referred to brass band treble clef parts.
In brass band writing every instrument (except bass trombone) is written in treble clef and played using trumpet fingerings.
Think of changing between Bb, C, D and Eb trumpet - you use the same fingerings and pitch a bit higher for the higher instruments.
The brass band system is just an extension of this system going right down to the lower instruments. Playing EEb tuba from brass band treble clef music is like playing a sub-contra bass Eb trumpet.

Regards

Gerard

Accidentals may or may not match on Eb tuba. For example, a bass clef A-natural for Eb tuba will be an F# when written it treble clef for brass band. A bass clef E-natural will be a treble clef C#. However, a bass clef Db and a treble clef Bb are both first valve and written the same. But once you learn the little traps that you have to deal with, it's really not that hard.

After switching to Eb about a year and a half ago, I rarely have much of a problems switching between bass clef and treble clef. My biggest problem is the occasional brain-glitch with BBb fingerings.

You are all my collective heroes. Many thanks for taking the time and attention to write such well-considered responses. I'll be back in the US in a couple of months and a tuba will be high on my "to do" list. Thank you!