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Can anyone tell me about this horn? It is a mellophone marked Beaufort, with the included crooks.

So far I only met that maker’s name in a tuba context. One case being a bell used by Sam Gnagey for one of his conglomerated American style CC tubas.

The picture doesn’t look the same as for the current auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEAUFORT-AMERICAN-C ... 500wt_1156

Some years ago I wrote a posting on mellophones on one of the horn lists, but I have lost the text myself. My take on the mellophone is that it had a period purpose beyond being a substitute for horns in marching bands.

My own Martin mello is playable with a trumpet mouthpiece, and to me that is a core feature for the mellophones that came with crooks for several pitches. F or Eb may be explained by being common pitches for band altos, but E, D, and C or even Bb basso (baritone pitch) cannot be explained that way. The C pitch is the easy one as that is a very practical pitch for dance and church purposes: just read over the shoulder of the pianist/organist.

The E and D crooks only make sense in one context: opera or operetta. There these keys are very common in horn parts. No real opera house would get away with using mellophones on horn parts, but like Broadway shows go on tour nowadays, so did operas in the pre-electronic-medias’ era. Often with grossly reduced pit orchestras. Whether the trumpeter was on the tour or was a hired local, he could be handed a multi-crook mello to cover a doubler’s book like seen with woodwinds also today.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote: The E and D crooks only make sense in one context: opera or operetta. There these keys are very common in horn parts. No real opera house would get away with using mellophones on horn parts, but like Broadway shows go on tour nowadays, so did operas in the pre-electronic-medias’ era. Often with grossly reduced pit orchestras. Whether the trumpeter was on the tour or was a hired local, he could be handed a multi-crook mello to cover a doubler’s book like seen with woodwinds also today.

I had never considered or even heard of this concept - thanks for the info! Am I understanding correctly that opera companies (or other touring musical acts) have a set of 'company' mellophones the way a modern orchestra would have Wagner tuben (or other obscure instrument) to lend to the appropriate players for specific purposes?

I am not even sure the mellophones would be in plural in the smallest tour ensembles. I remember, from 50 years ago, a touring Danish syngespil (Singspiel in German) with a 5 piece non-doubling pit ensemble: piano, violin, flute, clarinet, and trumpet. The original had an orchestra with double woodwinds and 4-2-3-0 brasses. The small format also had been popular in restaurants and hotel lounges up to the WWII era, oddly enough wartime usually is very busy days for entertainment. Our state radio still had a so-called cabaret ensemble until around 40 years ago for light entertainment. I still hate the sound of the pianist filling in for missing instruments.

As for the ownership of the mellophones your model certainly was one option, which I have seen down to the level of amateurs-in-the-local-park outfits. Some players may have owned the mellos just to make themselves versatile and marketable.

Klaus

I play in a combo that does mostly songs that were popular with the clientele in retirement homes and community centers - Irving Berlin, ballads, WWI era tunes...At any rate, our leader used to be a cornet player, and when the community band didn't have a horn player, he switched to mellophone. Basically the same instrument and mouthpiece, still right-handed fingering. The band grew, other ensembles arose, and he stuck with the ersatz horn - somehow managing to blend with the more orchestral sound of the section, which is a real tribute to his skillful musicianship.
At any rate, he can really make a mellophone sing - imagine Beiderbecke on horn!

Sally Larsen wrote: At any rate, he can really make a mellophone sing - imagine Beiderbecke on horn!

I don't doubt it - there was a some of that going on back in the day, Dudley Fosdick being a notable example. I bet your bandleader has some old Miff Mole recordings. I think Fosdick may have played the bell-front style of instrument, though. Beautiful sounding instrument.

You can get "mellophone" mouthpieces, don't know if those would be interchangeable with cornet.

Blame Sousa. Ol' J.P. wanted his brass to be conical, hence the circular-wrapped mellophone replaced the French Horn. Every other concert band in the land followed suit, and mellophones in profusion could still be found in school bands through the 50s.
The mellophone mouthpiece shank is identical to the cornet.
The altohorn shank is identical to the trumpet, but the overall length is an inch shorter. Therefore the backbore is much shorter.

When did Sousa’s predecessor bands use French horns? During the Civil War era?

Which makes of mellophones have have receivers suited for cornet shanks?

Klaus

Mellophones/marching french horns are pretty neat instruments. The one posted here has more of the french horn shape while others look more like marching baritones. I once tooted on a rounded french-horn-looking one my first year of college and liked the sound. It was sitting unused in the instrument storage room where the tubas and souzys were stored.....I saw it on a shelf and was curious......so I just HAD to toot a few notes on it Can someone clarify the diff. between mellophones and marching french horns or are they the same just diff. names?

As I get it the straight mellophones came in F/Eb-alto pitch with a trumpet receiver and an adapter for French horn mouthpieces. They were meant to make marching easier for horn players. The first model I became aware of was the Getzen 300 series frumpet, but that may because Getzen was heavily marketed in Copenhagen. I never saw or heard Dizzy Gillespie play a frumpet, but the rumour went that he used one in performances.

The first marching French horn I became aware of was the Blessing, also in F alto and straight, but with a much more open wrap and a bell approaching the 12" standard of the French horn. Also the receiver was the small one for French horn mouthpieces. Since then there have been immense numbers of odd variants, the King in Bb being one of the more sane models.

One of the more obscene offerings for the marching alto market is the Holton MH-102 Marching French Horn 3P shown below here. Even it clearly has at least one part intended for French horn, it still comes with adapters for horn, alto, or trumpet mouthpieces.

Klaus

My father played mellophone when he was in school band. I presume that would have been about sixth grade through high school, in the late '30s, early '40s. It is a J. W. York and Sons (I have it now.) with different tuning slides to change keys. (But I don't have it in front of me now.)

Nowadays, drum and bugle corps use mellophones, but they are of the trumpet shaped marching design. I don't know much about them as my sons played contra and baritone/euphonium. Bigger bore on the euph than the baritone. At least some corps use both at the same time.

High school marching bands may use marching French horns which I presume to be a trumpet shaped horn in the same key (F). And substitute marching baritones for trombones.

Why or when mellophones lost their place in school bands, I don't know.

One of my Dad's most told memories from his band days seems to be as punishment(?) the director would have them pull out "Poet and Peasant Overture" to work on.

When school bands use single F horn for seated playing, these almost invariably are in the same octave as the F tuba. Single Bb horns are fairly common in Europe, but apparently not in the US, where double horns in Bb and F apparently are very much used.

Marching Bb horns are in the same pitch as the Bb side of the double horn, whereas the marching F horns are an octave higher than the single F horns and than the F side of double horns. The fingerings of the marching F horns reading from F parts are the same as with a Bb trumpet reading from Bb parts.

Klaus

The mellophone that I tooted on in the storage band room my first year at college was identical to this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/MARCHING-MELLOPHONE ... 1741wt_782" target="_blank

When I saw it up on the shelf I was like "what IS that funky looking instrument? "
I just had to play on it as I was very curious. Had a nice french horn/flugelhorn-ish hybrid type sound. Since the mouthpiece and mouthpipe are so much smaller than tuba, it would be such a drastic difference and might have messed up my tuba embouchure....I dunno. But it seems like a neat instrument to double on (if it doesn't effect your chops too much) or just play for fun.

Anyone here play tuba and double on some other higher brass instrument without too much trouble?

too "likes weird and obscure tubas and brass instruments" ba

I double on trumpet, it's different enough embouchure to not effect tuba for me, unlike euph/baritone. Going from tuba to trumpet is instantaneous, but going from trumpet to tuba takes a few mins to adjust to the m.p. YMMV.

My Eb alto takes a trumpet mouthpiece (1919 Conn) but the Conn 1 piece that came with it works much better, at least for me.

When I first took up trumpet (two years after starting on tuba), it messed with my tuba embouchure and after a couple of years I traded in my trumpet for a trombone. That worked much better for me. Some years later I started playing trumpet some again, but by that time I had delved into quite a few more instruments and was able to adjust to different mouthpieces and embouchures much more quickly and easily. In my last year of undergrad work, I was first chair trumpet in the college concert band and bass trombone in the swing/jazz band.

We're talking a million years ago now, but I used to double 4th Horn and tuba in H.S. orchestra. Often switched during a given piece...my feeling was that the two mouthpieces were so different that they didn't interfere much with each other. Course, what we did at 17 and what we do now are vastly different...

bloke wrote:

Biggs wrote:Can anyone tell me about this horn? It is a mellophone marked Beaufort, with the included crooks.

In my expert and painstakingly researched opinion, it's a worth-less-than-$250 item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEAUFORT-AMERICAN-C ... 0599755033

I paid considerably less than $250, so I'm inclined to agree.